• Play
  • About
  • News
  • Forums
  • Yppedia
  • Help
Welcome Guest   | Login
  Index  | Recent Threads  | Register  | Search  | Help  | RSS feeds  | View Unanswered Threads  
  Search  


Quick Go »
Thread Status: Normal
Total posts in this thread: 36
Posts: 36   Pages: 2   [ First Page | 1 2 | Next Page | Last Page]
[Add To My Favorites] [Watch this Thread] [Post new Thread]
Author
Previous Thread This topic has been viewed 8030 times and has 35 replies Next Thread
Kyura94

Member's Avatar


Joined: Oct 31, 2010
Posts: 228
Status: Offline
Ryuken's Illustrated Distilling Guide Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Hello. Ryuken here. I've gone from Broad/Proficient to eventually obtaining Ultimate and now #1 experience on Obsidian so... I would like to think that I have learnt enough to shed some light on this puzzle that most people deplore. Here's hoping it helps you.

much thanks to chesster, hissul, galam, ozzy, possum and evilduck for scrutinising my play as I struggled through this puzzle

psst: my first post on the forums so i'm hoping gifs and images work fine. try a quick refresh if they're laggy for you


Intro:

- Goal: Put Crystal Clear (CC) chains into the keg. Nothing else.
- Black > White = Furnace (down), anything else goes into the Keg (up). Yes this includes a full column of brown (revisited in Expert section)
- Whites that go down are burnt. 1 Burn piece is generated for every 2 Whites burnt. It is not worth it to generate a burn piece (revisited in Misc. section)
- Abandon your puzzle (revisited in Misc. Section)
- Be aware of the glitch (revisited in Misc. Section)

- Terminology
Junk = Browns & Blacks
PureBrown = A column consisting of only Brown pieces
Earlygame = Rescuing Whites
Midgame = Playing with the white CC block
Endgame = After the CC chain has started

- Basic, Skilled and Expert sections (arbitrarily defined by me). Ideally you'd stay in that section until you've mastered the techniques and hit the consistent CC chain average of the next section before moving on. More importantly anyway, practise each technique before expecting to be able to calculate and execute it when the situation arises.

- CTRL+F Index for the Movement and Planning bits.
M1: Crawling (implicitly horizontal)
M2: Vertical Crawling
M3: Rows
M4: Accelerated Crawling
M5: Combination
P1: Spice Walls + Problematic Pieces
P2: Spice Traps
P3: Keeping Value Pieces
P4: Rescue
P5: Tidying the Right Side
P6: Black Tips
P7: Move Gaps
TB: Tips-Basic
TS: Tips-Skilled
TE: Tips-Expert


Basic (CC5 and below)

Objective:
Save your Whites so you don't burn anything. Ideally, you'd repeat this over and over, only sending Junk into the furnace thereby conserving Whites for the CC chain that we're after.
Fundamentals:
A) Legal moves. (image)

Not much to be said. The connecting mini-bubbles show you available moves. White climbs into Black and falls into Brown, etc. It'll become second nature with time. A piece with more legal moves has more value.
B) Performing moves.
Please click-drag instead of click-click or keyboard. No exceptions. A common beginner-level mistake here is not dragging pieces in a straight line. Just practise more, I can't really help you there sorry.
C) Dachimpy's simulator is noteworthy, but without the time factor you won't progress much. Definitely use it while you're learning movement, but the earlier you break away from it, the better. Suffer through the puzzle once you've learnt movement. Pressure makes diamonds.

Movement: Crawling (gif) [M1]

Crawling - Movement of 2 distinct pieces through a 3rd medium.
Eg: At mid/end game, High Browns and low Blacks are problematic because they have no value in a sea of Whites. Crawling offers a simple solution by trading value between both Junk pieces, using one to carry the other. Black climbs into Brown to +1 value then falls into White to -1. Brown does the opposite, repeat.

Movement: Vertical Crawling (gif) [M2]

Once comfortable, crawling can be performed in any desired angle through a strategic mix of both horizontal and vertical crawls. As it requires a medium (sea of Whites in this example), you'd find little use for it in the earlygame. Nonetheless crawling is a tool at your disposal when the need arises. Learn to do it fast, it is SO useful.

Tips: [TB]
- Your focus at this stage is merely the Whites, all the other Junk is irrelevant. It's intuitive to work from the Right and save the most immediate White.
- Move stray Whites to the left. Once all the Whites are connected, move Junk from left to the right
- Pick a friendly starting board. In the rightmost 3 columns, look for 5 Whites or less. Immediately abandon any other board (no penalty). This is especially helpful when movement calibre is poor and thought process is slow. No shame in doing so.

Skilled (CC6+)
Objective: More efficient planning and execution than Basic. Spice Knowledge + Early detection of problematic pieces.
Movement: Rows (gif) [M3]

Rows (aka Trains) - Moving rows of piece A using 1 piece B through medium C.
Over time, you'd find that Crawling alone isn't sufficient. We cannot always have 1 Black to carry 1 Brown, etc. Moving rows maximises the utility of the value piece by carrying a chain of problematic pieces.

At this stage I just wish to point out something. If you caught on, the way i maneuvered the Brown row and the Black row were different. Apart from demonstrating how to move rows, this illustrates examples of good and bad rowing. Notice how none of the Browns were clicked when moving the Brown row?
If I clicked the Brown, a simple over-movement would cause it to slide too far and ruin the row; it is safer to drag a White because it cannot slide inappropriately regardless how poorly I flick my cursor. The Black row is the bad example.


Planning: Spice Walls + Problematic Pieces (gif) [P1]

I meant to illustrate a Spice example but as it turns out there's multiple things going on here so let's review it chronologically.
1) Noticing that my bottom-left corner is dead/problematic, I borrowed a Black from the right (see P4: Rescue). Now that the Blacks are connected, I can Row them out
2) This is a smaller trick. Borrowed a Brown from the right just to help the row move a bit quicker. Not crucial, I could've moved the row normally
3) Instead of replacing the most immediate White column, I flush the Blacks behind the Spice. It's a pre-emptive measure: It would be impossible to get behind the spice wall if it was at the end of the board, so I'd rather deal with it now. In the same way, flush Browns behind a spice wall that's at the top.

Planning: Spice Traps (image) [P2]
Planning is not the best word for it since you can't really plan for a Spice Trap. For the most part, try to Furnace all columns till you eventually burn the Trap as well. If you have to burn Whites, by all means. However, sometimes the Trap is located too deep into the CC, as follows:

Your best course of action is to drown the Trap. Never opt to send up a Trap, that wastes 7-8 Whites which is complete blasphemy in Distilling.
Your CC chain is already broken, it's better to settle for 4+TrapFurnace+8 than 4+TrapKeg+7 because your Trap went up. Or worse, 4+TrapKeg+6 because you wasted so many Whites that you can't even get 4+TK+7. TLDR; Trap = Furnace

Planning: Keeping Value Pieces (gif) [P3]

It's a good habit to store a few value pieces (Blacks at top, Browns below). This allows for easy manipulation when the spawn column gives problematic pieces like these 2 Blacks. There's no rush to move these value pieces into the last column unless you desperately need to save a White from burning, so keep them where they are.

Planning: Rescue (gif) [P4]

Perhaps you didn't keep enough value pieces, or simply none spawned. Performing a Rescue involves pulling pieces from the Junk pile on the right to extract a stuck problematic piece. Technically one Black piece here would've been enough to get them out, but I like to match the 3 Browns with an equal 3 Black, for aesthetics.


Tips: [TS]
- Don't overdo the Keeping Value Pieces unless you're comfortable with it - 2 is usually sufficient. One for moving a row and one for backup.
- If you're still in the starting bits of the Midgame, you can afford to ignore one or two problematic pieces. There's a good chance the spawn can pick them up. But don't do this for too long!
- Previously, we've been picking boards with no more than 5 whites in the rightmost 3 columns. If your average CC has increased to 6ish, you can increase the margin progressively until you're comfortable regardless the number of whites


Expert (CC9+)

Objective: More productive and defensive play
Movement: Accelerated Crawl (gif) [M4]

Accelerated Crawling - Combination of Crawling and Keeping Value Pieces.
A high Brown-spawn that was easily dealt with via accelerated crawling. You'll find that the Blacks were given -1 value then restored back to their original position (which means they can be used for the next high Brown-spawn!)

But how do we set it up?

Sorry I don't have an eloquent way of explaining this. In essence, if a value piece spawns at the very edge, don't touch it. Alternatively, you can crawl on the edge and create your own value piece to set up the acc.crawl, as illustrated.

Movement: Combination (gif) [M5]

Not actually a technique. Just a display of movement combination. Again, chronologically:
1) Rowing the 2 Browns down, targeting the top Whites
2) Horizontal crawling to target the Black into the mid White
3) Quick circle to put the Black into place (Vertical Crawling)
4) Had a bit of leftover furnace time so I decided to crawl the Black, targeting the lowest White
5) Finish up with the Brown
On hindsight, I had enough time to rescue the other Black too, but I couldn't calculate that in time.
What if the fresh spawn had insufficient Junk? Retract the Junk from the last column.
What if you can't retract them? Then it's your fault for putting a Black at the very bottom or Brown at the very top. Which leads us to:

Planning: Tidying the Right Side (image) [P5]

For the most part, you only need to tidy up the first column of Junk. Tidying up involves ensuring every Junk single piece has value. This way, you can always retract them instead of sending up a bad column. More importantly however, they can dive back into the action and help out with misclicks/spices/anything in the middle.

But BE VERY CAREFUL with this! Tidying the right side significantly improves your gameplay by opening up more options, but tendency for PureBrown increases towards the end. Stay alert.


Planning: Black tips (image) [P6]

Avoiding the PureBrown again. Since "Black>White" condition is not fulfilled, PureBrown columns goes up and tarnishes your clean Keg.
During the midgame, it's possible to be engrossed in the action and overlook the Junk pile on the right. Tipping each Junk column with a Black safeguards against PureBrowns as those Blacks are in deadlock. The earlier you establish your columns' Black tips, the quicker you establish safety.

Planning: Move gaps (gif) [P7]

All whites are identical - Change the target instead
Here, after moving the White-spawn up, I noticed there was no easy way to fill the 3 remaining gaps. I did however have somewhat of a Brown passage for Whites to flow through, so I Instead moved the gaps towards the Brown passage.


Tips: [TE]
- Tidying up additional columns with your excess time in the earlygame would allow more time during your midgame to do other operations - not a bad idea but only do this with excess time. Organising additional columns of Junk should not be a priority if your board has other problems.
- I refuse to write anything regarding endgame structure patterns because I don't believe it offers enough I have grown fond of a particular structure, somewhat. See Q&A . But experiment to see what works out for you, if you insist on having one.
- In the endgame, stuck Whites must be rescued immediately as every White counts. Connect more Whites to it and fish out the entire row at once. Borrow a White from an organised CC if you must.
- Sometimes in the endgame, there are far more Browns or Blacks. Switch gears from endgame structure pattern (if you adopted one) and recognise that this is now a Black medium, for example. Crawl and Row accordingly using your limited Browns to transport Whites over into CCs
- Fill in the CCs diligently (thanks Galam). I'm not sure why but I fail at this far too often. The next CC isn't fully constructed and I place Whites at the next column. I have no idea sometimes - just don't do it. It's not hard to fix even after the error is committed but why go through all that.

Misc.
1) Abandon your puzzle. This is arguably the most important takeaway if you're not already doing it. Do your best CC chain that you can pull off, and leave the puzzle immediately. Unless it's a CC12+, abandon. You'll see the results after a few sessions.
2) Generating a Burn isn't worth it. A random number of 1-30 is rolled for each piece. 30 spawns a Spice, every other value is divided by 3. That division remainder determines the spawn for that roll, with 0 being White. That's 2.4 Whites for a short column and 2.7 Whites for a long column, statistically. Further, Burns don't "spawn", they merely take the place of a White that does spawn. Thus every Burn effectively counts for 3 Whites (the 2 you burnt to generate it, and the 1 it replaces). TLDR: Don't burn more than 1 White unless you want to gamble, or simply just want to push yourself and burnt some in the process
3) Playing from Left to Right in the earlygame. Instead of rescuing Whites from the right, one could instead focus on the Junk from the left and eradicate problematic pieces right from the get go. This does strain the nerves a bit as Whites would be close to the Furnace for a while but it makes the midgame a bit easier. Somewhat of a tactical gambit if you're confident in your piece movement.
4) Half Push your endgame. If you cannot make a Junk row (eg. Only 3 Junk pieces remaining), you could opt to move them to the centre of the board first. Depending on the next spawn, you can assess whether you have enough Junk to send another Junk row down. This relieves some time pressure as you don't have to transport every single Junk from left to right, but you lose out on potential rowing and saving problematic pieces since you have already committed some pieces to the middle. It's yet another gamble, but worth considering if you lack speed
5) Pick your starting board based on Spice count. This is for when you're at the Leg/Ult level as it seems to be a very minor effect. All spices from your starting board would burn away, and every Wasted Spice deducts from your score. Pretty self-explanatory. Nonetheless putting the score-argument aside, why would you want to play on a board that starts with 7 Spices anyway?
6) The Glitch.

This occurs when you hold a piece and literally fling it the moment a Furnace occurs (regardless automatic or triggered). You get to watch an amazing slow-mo and your piece is stripped of all its legal moves. Solution: Bring a piece near the glitch. This poses somewhat as salient stimuli which causes a graphical update which "refreshes" the piece. Being aware helps maintain composure and solve the glitch with ease.

Q&A for what I've been asked up to 21Dec
1) How do I set up accelerated crawling in the first place? Added.
2) Not enough value pieces are spawning for me to even keep. Added.
3) What those random spices in the middle of the board that block row movement.

A blend of rowing and crawling would surmount most isolated spices, as shown. Alternatively, I could've just moved the row by bringing the Black underneath instead of over it, but it didn't occur to me at the time. Regardless, no special movement is required for an isolated spice. Hope this illustration helps establish that.

4) I like to do (image), have you considered this endgame structure? Why do you feel endgame structures don't offer enough?



This was my board immediately after the CC16 went up. The speckled idea allows for more freedom for Crawling, but eliminates all opportunity for long dragging of Whites. Up to interpretation whether this counts as a structure I guess. In any case, I've reviewed my games and most of them take one of these "forms":
in an abundance of Blacks
in an abundance of Browns
Some of the structures you guys have shown me are rather interesting as well, just be mindful that you can handle whitespawns at the extreme corners.

5) Why abandon a board with >5 Whites? It's more for beginners. As you progress, abandon boards with multiple spices. Further up, look for boards without multiple spices and with LOTS of whites. The latter reduces the probability of more spices spawning since your CC Chain would start earlier.

That's about it for this write-up for now. There's a lot more that can be said and demonstrated but these would cover the main bulk of things. At the very least, hope this gives you the motivation to give Distilling another shot.
----------------------------------------
Ryuken on Obsidian (active) and Emerald (not really)
I made an in-depth Distilling guide here, and a guns one somewhere.
I gave Obsidian their Owls c:
----------------------------------------
[Edit 2 times, last edit by Kyura94 at Dec 21, 2017 9:31:41 AM]
[Dec 1, 2017 4:28:32 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Prammy16

Member's Avatar


Joined: Mar 2, 2010
Posts: 255
Status: Offline
Re: Ryuken's Illustrated Distilling Guide Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

This is a detailed and comprehensive post on what I consider to be the most clever and most under-rated puzzle in the game. Thank you!
----------------------------------------
-Porglit on Emerald
-Shadetemplar on Obsidian
[Dec 2, 2017 9:23:05 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kyura94

Member's Avatar


Joined: Oct 31, 2010
Posts: 228
Status: Offline
Re: Ryuken's Illustrated Distilling Guide Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
This is a detailed and comprehensive post on what I consider to be the most clever and most under-rated puzzle in the game. Thank you!

Appreciate the kind words! It is indeed a terribly underrated puzzle.


Update:

Been receiving /tells in game and PMs via the forums, some of which are very aged (I am so sorry I didn't even know they were a thing, overlooked the inbox notification somehow). I take it that they would like to remain anonymous so I've just taken the general issues raised and addressed them accordingly. There were many repeats and I hope I didn't overgeneralise.

Also added more, in general. Merry X'mas!
----------------------------------------
Ryuken on Obsidian (active) and Emerald (not really)
I made an in-depth Distilling guide here, and a guns one somewhere.
I gave Obsidian their Owls c:
[Dec 21, 2017 9:41:39 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
hidemyhoney

Member's Avatar


Joined: Dec 26, 2017
Posts: 195
Status: Offline
Re: Ryuken's Illustrated Distilling Guide Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

@Ryuken Very good Distilling guide lucky I do most of these techniques myself xD
----------------------------------------
I love Honey

Big supporter of Crafting puzzles being freed!

Remove dead oceans, make a new one for the established players!

Add Skilled swabbies for SMHs/flotillas!
[Dec 27, 2017 2:31:33 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Clenito

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jan 5, 2007
Posts: 273
Status: Offline
Re: Ryuken's Illustrated Distilling Guide Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Hi there, I'm a Leg/Ult distiller but I thought I'd take a look at your guide; it looks very thorough and I like that you added animated gifs, that's really helpful. To learn puzzles I would always suggest watching Youtube videos, if possible with commentary ;)

Just one question: although I've been a quite active player back in the days, I've never really bothered about high-scoring techniques and tricks, in Distilling or any other puzzles.

 
1) Abandon your puzzle. This is arguably the most important takeaway if you're not already doing it. Do your best CC chain that you can pull off, and leave the puzzle immediately. Unless it's a CC12+, abandon. You'll see the results after a few sessions.


Could you elaborate a bit more about this part? If I get only a CC10 or CC11, is it better to leave the puzzle after getting the last CC, than to send down the last row and wait for the DR?
----------------------------------------
Barbecul, on Emerald.

on Youtube

My trinkets
[Dec 29, 2017 3:24:15 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
patgangster

Member's Avatar


Joined: May 26, 2006
Posts: 462
Status: Offline
Re: Ryuken's Illustrated Distilling Guide Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
Could you elaborate a bit more about this part? If I get only a CC10 or CC11, is it better to leave the puzzle after getting the last CC, than to send down the last row and wait for the DR?

Yes. If I remember it right, it's because your score is based on the average of rows you send instead of total score? Any CC6+ -> Abandon is better than finishing the session.
----------------------------------------
TriplePat, Joining the great obsidian migration.
[Dec 29, 2017 5:49:01 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Silverdream

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jan 17, 2006
Posts: 1851
Status: Offline
Re: Ryuken's Illustrated Distilling Guide Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
Yes. If I remember it right, it's because your score is based on the average of rows you send instead of total score? Any CC6+ -> Abandon is better than finishing the session.


You have to send up one BIG row with whites and spices. There is no real average of rows. Abandon CC6+ gives a small plus for lower levels, up to master level. If you go for real high levels like leg/ult on elite oceans, these small plus is not important because you have to play CC12+.
----------------------------------------
Platia - Captain of Kraken Hunt - Monarch of Kraken Down (Emerald)

Platia - Senior Officer of Lords of Darkness - Monarch of Dark Shadows (Opal)

------

Platia on all other oceans!
[Dec 29, 2017 6:59:47 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kyura94

Member's Avatar


Joined: Oct 31, 2010
Posts: 228
Status: Offline
Re: Ryuken's Illustrated Distilling Guide Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Clenito:
 
Could you elaborate a bit more about this part? If I get only a CC10 or CC11, is it better to leave the puzzle after getting the last CC, than to send down the last row and wait for the DR?


patgangster:
 
Yes. If I remember it right, it's because your score is based on the average of rows you send instead of total score? Any CC6+ -> Abandon is better than finishing the session.


Empirical evidence is consistent with this idea, and I pretty much just accepted Dismissing as the way to go. I've recently learnt of the underlying rationale however, which is briefly summarised by Pat above. Turns out Dismissing isn't always correct.

A simplified model would be:
CC1 column = 1point, CC2 column = 2points, etc.

The averaging would work out to give:
Pulling off a CC1 = 1point / 1col = 1 Score
Pulling off a CC2 = (1+2)points / 2cols = 1.5 Score
Pulling off CC10 then CC2 = (55+3)points / 12cols = 4.8333 Score
(same as doing CC2 then CC10)

I'll skip the math:
The blue points assume you complete a full keg of 12 cols, which is the only way to get the DR you mentioned


So yes pat is correct, CC6+ -> Dismiss is better.
Note: criticising the model, it's more likely that the scores increase, increasingly. A Vegas scores significantly better than a Donkey, whereas a Triple does little more than a Double. Hence the point gain from CC5 to CC6 should intuitively be higher than CC2 to CC3. Nonetheless, applying an exponential model to the points reaches the same conclusion pat outlined.

Further, there are other qualitative factors to consider. Suppose you get a CC6 and chose to continue:
1) May not get enough White spawns to get another CC6
2) Failed pushes (Blecch! / Smooth) when setting up the next CC chain
3) Spice Trap spawn
4) More Wasted Spice! instances which deduct from your score
5) More time spent (Lag / Disconnects / Server Reboots / Competition Distilling)

This does point to something else however - a small flaw in what I initially wrote. Always abandoning after the first chain is wrong: a CC3 should definitely be followed up with a CC9 (eg. Spice Trap forced a CC3). But if a Trap forces a CC5... then it's complicated. You'll have to weigh the score boost against the factors above.
----------------------------------------
Ryuken on Obsidian (active) and Emerald (not really)
I made an in-depth Distilling guide here, and a guns one somewhere.
I gave Obsidian their Owls c:
[Dec 29, 2017 10:11:36 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Clenito

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jan 5, 2007
Posts: 273
Status: Offline
Re: Ryuken's Illustrated Distilling Guide Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

I see, thanks a lot for the explanation!
----------------------------------------
Barbecul, on Emerald.

on Youtube

My trinkets
[Dec 30, 2017 1:17:42 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
rlpowell



Joined: Aug 14, 2003
Posts: 11
Status: Offline

Re: Ryuken's Illustrated Distilling Guide Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Thank you so much for this guide!

I'm trying to help out my hearty, after a long (years) absence, by providing Expert labor. I'm on Cerulean. Can anyone give me some pointers on how to get there? Do I want to be aiming to improve ranking (i.e. getting CC6+ and then quitting), or aiming to get Excellent in my duty reports, or what? What does it even take to get Excellent these days?

Thanks!
[Jan 31, 2018 3:09:18 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
lady_maeror

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jul 8, 2007
Posts: 146
Status: Offline
Re: Ryuken's Illustrated Distilling Guide Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

So if I get to cc^11 without enough whites to finish a cc^12, it?s actually better for my score to abandon puzzle at the end of the cc^11 instead of waiting to create the last full run of white?

Edit: I swore I replied before, apparently not. As someone struggling to become a pro at this puzzle I really appreciate a post such as this. There were still things I found that helped me immensely or gave me a lightbulb moment :)
----------------------------------------
Aeyelle of the Viridian Meridian Ocean
Arianne of the Obsidian Ocean
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by lady_maeror at Jan 31, 2018 10:22:42 PM]
[Jan 31, 2018 10:21:08 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
patgangster

Member's Avatar


Joined: May 26, 2006
Posts: 462
Status: Offline
Re: Ryuken's Illustrated Distilling Guide Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
So if I get to cc^11 without enough whites to finish a cc^12, it?s actually better for my score to abandon puzzle at the end of the cc^11 instead of waiting to create the last full run of white?


Yes, exactly. This applies to any CC6 or higher.
----------------------------------------
TriplePat, Joining the great obsidian migration.
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by patgangster at Feb 1, 2018 3:45:46 AM]
[Feb 1, 2018 3:00:14 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kyura94

Member's Avatar


Joined: Oct 31, 2010
Posts: 228
Status: Offline
Re: Ryuken's Illustrated Distilling Guide Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

@rlpowell
Hmm I can't speak for Cerulean because my entire journey from Able to #1 Distiller has been on Obsidian. The best move I suggest would be to Chain->Dismiss until you get Ren, and let the badge give Expert on your behalf.

If you *need* to be giving Expert through the DR, try a broken chain method, like CC2 into CC10. Breaking the chain gives you MUCH more time, flexibility, helps with composure, and almost guarantees enough Whites for the CC10. Just note that it's worse for your rank, but might enable you to churn out Expert DRs (depends on Cerulean's score curve)

@Arianne
 
So if I get to cc^11 without enough whites to finish a cc^12, it?s actually better for my score to abandon puzzle at the end of the cc^11 instead of waiting to create the last full run of white?

Yup. Refer to the previous simplified model for the averaging framework. I would advocate abandoning everything* that's at least CC6. You only need the DR for competition, or if you want to provide labour. (side note, if you do CC12 or higher, abandoning still registers as labour throughput and you get your PoE payout, since the puzzle is deemed Completed at that point)

*The only exception would be if you get spice trapped or made an error. eg: If you had CC4 followed by trap, a follow-up CC8 would fetch the DR and that's the best you can settle for. Don't abandon at CC4+Trap+CC7 unless you lack the whites for CC8

Hope this helps. Keep at it :D
----------------------------------------
Ryuken on Obsidian (active) and Emerald (not really)
I made an in-depth Distilling guide here, and a guns one somewhere.
I gave Obsidian their Owls c:
[Feb 1, 2018 3:05:28 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
lady_maeror

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jul 8, 2007
Posts: 146
Status: Offline
Re: Ryuken's Illustrated Distilling Guide Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Lovely! And to raise or drop my standing I do not need a duty report correct? As long as I have recorded time playing the puzzle, each session counts?

(Just making sure because I have never attempted this before) xD

Thanks for the great tips!
----------------------------------------
Aeyelle of the Viridian Meridian Ocean
Arianne of the Obsidian Ocean
[Feb 1, 2018 4:04:01 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kyura94

Member's Avatar


Joined: Oct 31, 2010
Posts: 228
Status: Offline
Re: Ryuken's Illustrated Distilling Guide Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
Lovely! And to raise or drop my standing I do not need a duty report correct? As long as I have recorded time playing the puzzle, each session counts?

(Just making sure because I have never attempted this before) xD

Thanks for the great tips!

In terms of your Standing, as long as you have touched any piece or if 1 Furnace has activated, the session is counted and yes you'll go up/down accordingly.

Just for the sake of illustrating: CC13 with no spice at the end, I could just get the DR since there'll be no Wasted Spice!,
but I abandoned anyway.
Practised moving Whites over because I always want to get the most out of each session. It doesn't count for anything but I'd encourage it on a why-not basis.

----------------------------------------
Ryuken on Obsidian (active) and Emerald (not really)
I made an in-depth Distilling guide here, and a guns one somewhere.
I gave Obsidian their Owls c:
[Feb 1, 2018 4:36:09 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
rlpowell



Joined: Aug 14, 2003
Posts: 11
Status: Offline

Re: Ryuken's Illustrated Distilling Guide Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
@rlpowell
Hmm I can't speak for Cerulean because my entire journey from Able to #1 Distiller has been on Obsidian. The best move I suggest would be to Chain->Dismiss until you get Ren, and let the badge give Expert on your behalf.


That's about what I figured. I shouldn't chain -> dismiss until I can get CC6+, though, right?
[Feb 1, 2018 7:27:53 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kyura94

Member's Avatar


Joined: Oct 31, 2010
Posts: 228
Status: Offline
Re: Ryuken's Illustrated Distilling Guide Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
That's about what I figured. I shouldn't chain -> dismiss until I can get CC6+, though, right?

Yup this requires distillers to pull off CC6+. Unfortunately if 6+ is out of reach then abandoning doesn't help, even potentially worse for your stat. But at that stage the priority should be learning the puzzle instead of executing for the Ren rank anyway.

Hope this helps :D
----------------------------------------
Ryuken on Obsidian (active) and Emerald (not really)
I made an in-depth Distilling guide here, and a guns one somewhere.
I gave Obsidian their Owls c:
[Feb 1, 2018 8:20:03 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
rlpowell



Joined: Aug 14, 2003
Posts: 11
Status: Offline

Re: Ryuken's Illustrated Distilling Guide Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
 
That's about what I figured. I shouldn't chain -> dismiss until I can get CC6+, though, right?

Yup this requires distillers to pull off CC6+. Unfortunately if 6+ is out of reach then abandoning doesn't help, even potentially worse for your stat. But at that stage the priority should be learning the puzzle instead of executing for the Ren rank anyway.

Hope this helps :D


I think it does. Thanks!
[Feb 2, 2018 12:10:21 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
lady_maeror

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jul 8, 2007
Posts: 146
Status: Offline
Re: Ryuken's Illustrated Distilling Guide Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Although not a major deal because I am trying to up my rank so I can perform passive expert labour, but I have noticed that 50% of the time that I leave the puzzle, I am not paid for my work. (The shoppe does not say it is unable to take labour at the puzzles beginning.)
----------------------------------------
Aeyelle of the Viridian Meridian Ocean
Arianne of the Obsidian Ocean
[Feb 2, 2018 4:49:29 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kyura94

Member's Avatar


Joined: Oct 31, 2010
Posts: 228
Status: Offline
Re: Ryuken's Illustrated Distilling Guide Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
Although not a major deal because I am trying to up my rank so I can perform passive expert labour, but I have noticed that 50% of the time that I leave the puzzle, I am not paid for my work. (The shoppe does not say it is unable to take labour at the puzzles beginning.)

Interesting. Personally I kill all my advanced labour rather quickly so I've never really took note whether every single session gets paid. But I don't recall not getting paid for any CC12+.

I've been receiving more questions both ingame and outgame(?). A lot are kinda specific and refer to your own clips/snapshots which I don't think would help others much, so I'll just try to reconcile the more common ones soon-ish . Glad to hear more people's interest in the puzzle :D
----------------------------------------
Ryuken on Obsidian (active) and Emerald (not really)
I made an in-depth Distilling guide here, and a guns one somewhere.
I gave Obsidian their Owls c:
[Feb 2, 2018 9:20:41 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
patgangster

Member's Avatar


Joined: May 26, 2006
Posts: 462
Status: Offline
Re: Ryuken's Illustrated Distilling Guide Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

If you don't send up at least 12 rows you haven't "finished the puzzle" and therefore don't get paid when abandoning.
----------------------------------------
TriplePat, Joining the great obsidian migration.
[Feb 3, 2018 2:49:10 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kyura94

Member's Avatar


Joined: Oct 31, 2010
Posts: 228
Status: Offline
Re: Ryuken's Illustrated Distilling Guide Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Welp I can't edit the original post anymore because "You cannot edit a post which is older than 60 days." Someone suggested I remake the thread so it can be continually updated but I've mixed feelings about that.

Anyway, further Q&A for what I've been asked, only doing the generic ones as mentioned previously sorry. Would be way too long otherwise.

You said generating a burn isn't worth it based on the numbers. But what if I generated a burn by burning 1 White in 2 different columns?
I've entertained that thought a bit. I think statistically yes you can but how would you pull that off? If I've burnt 1 White I doubt I'd have enough Junk to burn another 1 White. Intentionally burning a White because you foresee having to burn 2 Whites later.. well okay if you want to gamble.

Could you address the point about how abandoning only helps until Master?
Not true. See Clip 1. 6 Feb 2018, YeBloodyBoundingMain Arch on Obsidian.

Variations of the question: Do you abandon CC10/11/12/13/14/15/16, does that improve rank or just prevents dropping?
Clip 1 as well.
Sidenote: 1 variation of this question included Experience into the mix. Odd but anyway, I've brought my alt Ryugun to Neo/Leg via only abandoning (I took one DR hence the Neophyte because i wanted incred distil trophy) and Clip 1 is Ryuken at Sublime. So that should answer that.

Variations of the question: Any tips to help me play faster?
To me there's 2 parts to "playing faster". Accuracy & Calculation Speed.
- Accuracy: In an attempt to say more than "make friends with your mouse", see Clip 2 for one of my warmup habits - Inefficient multiple clicks. It's just what I like to do, maybe that would help you?
- C. Speed: Comes with time. I feel it helps to have some degree of pressure to force yourself to develop calculation speed. Try what I did in the beginning of Clip 1. Send as many CC before you play the endgame, to the point where it's borderline uncomfortable. Your endgame will demand more rapid calculation and less 'autopiloting' that way.
- Sidenote: I like "wiggling" too. See Clip 3. Moved the browns perfectly but White got jammed. I prefer just wiggling instead of re-clicking the White. Sometimes I just can't draw straight lines properly so yeah wiggle.

Should I still be tidying the right side when there's only 1-2 Junk columns left? Can't move browns and blacks through each other as easily anymore.
Yes, in fact that's when it's the most important, as it potentially allows you to push out more Junk columns and delay the CC Chain even more. Just have to get familiar with your movement options. It's not always doable depending on the situation - being able to calculate that takes time too. See Clip 4

Hope that helps. Always nice to hear from people who are growing to appreciate the puzzle.
___

Clip 1 (accelerated) + ending frame


Clip 2 - spam click warmup


Clip 3 - wiggling


Clip 4 - semi-complex tidying of the right side (spices)

----------------------------------------
Ryuken on Obsidian (active) and Emerald (not really)
I made an in-depth Distilling guide here, and a guns one somewhere.
I gave Obsidian their Owls c:
[Feb 6, 2018 2:25:22 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
hidemyhoney

Member's Avatar


Joined: Dec 26, 2017
Posts: 195
Status: Offline
Re: Ryuken's Illustrated Distilling Guide Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Apparently theres a distilling bug happening right now, apparently when your Distilling you finish your start game to entering mid-game stage, apparently burning some spices (which the system thinks its white pieces) counts as a failed row which means can't get more than CC11 >_>
----------------------------------------
I love Honey

Big supporter of Crafting puzzles being freed!

Remove dead oceans, make a new one for the established players!

Add Skilled swabbies for SMHs/flotillas!
[Feb 8, 2018 1:34:36 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kyura94

Member's Avatar


Joined: Oct 31, 2010
Posts: 228
Status: Offline
Re: Ryuken's Illustrated Distilling Guide Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
Apparently theres a distilling bug happening right now, apparently when your Distilling you finish your start game to entering mid-game stage, apparently burning some spices (which the system thinks its white pieces) counts as a failed row which means can't get more than CC11 >_>

Umm I'm not sure what that means. If you could clip it happening that'd be informative!
----------------------------------------
Ryuken on Obsidian (active) and Emerald (not really)
I made an in-depth Distilling guide here, and a guns one somewhere.
I gave Obsidian their Owls c:
[Feb 10, 2018 9:38:27 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Captntipper



Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 59
Status: Offline

Re: Ryuken's Illustrated Distilling Guide Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

I've had a couple games end prematurely after a CC11, but honestly I assumed I wasn't paying close attention and screwed up something at the start of the CC chain (its not uncommon for me to mess up the first column when trying to push my self and failing). I'll keep an eye out, maybe I encountered this bug without noticing!
----------------------------------------
Captnnemo - Obsidian
[Feb 20, 2018 7:00:20 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
hidemyhoney

Member's Avatar


Joined: Dec 26, 2017
Posts: 195
Status: Offline
Re: Ryuken's Illustrated Distilling Guide Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
I've had a couple games end prematurely after a CC11, but honestly I assumed I wasn't paying close attention and screwed up something at the start of the CC chain (its not uncommon for me to mess up the first column when trying to push my self and failing). I'll keep an eye out, maybe I encountered this bug without noticing!


Its randomly brown/black rows you send up without whites and with spices in them, it randomly goes spicy! sometimes which counts as a row which it should not happen at all. So therefore your correct it is a bug.
----------------------------------------
I love Honey

Big supporter of Crafting puzzles being freed!

Remove dead oceans, make a new one for the established players!

Add Skilled swabbies for SMHs/flotillas!
[Feb 20, 2018 11:08:51 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kyura94

Member's Avatar


Joined: Oct 31, 2010
Posts: 228
Status: Offline
Re: Ryuken's Illustrated Distilling Guide Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
 
I've had a couple games end prematurely after a CC11, but honestly I assumed I wasn't paying close attention and screwed up something at the start of the CC chain (its not uncommon for me to mess up the first column when trying to push my self and failing). I'll keep an eye out, maybe I encountered this bug without noticing!


Its randomly brown/black rows you send up without whites and with spices in them, it randomly goes spicy! sometimes which counts as a row which it should not happen at all. So therefore your correct it is a bug.
I've gone to Sublime, recorded most of my sessions yet never seen this, but to be fair I might've just been lucky. Footage would be insightful :o
----------------------------------------
Ryuken on Obsidian (active) and Emerald (not really)
I made an in-depth Distilling guide here, and a guns one somewhere.
I gave Obsidian their Owls c:
[Feb 22, 2018 3:59:27 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Captntipper



Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 59
Status: Offline

Re: Ryuken's Illustrated Distilling Guide Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

After recording my sessions a few times, I managed to catch one of this premature CC11 finishes. As I had originally assumed, it was me not paying close attention and sending a full brown column up. Because I got no sound indication for it (as opposed to a blecch!), I didn't notice when it went up.

No bug here on my end then, is it possible the same is happening to you @hidemyhoney?
----------------------------------------
Captnnemo - Obsidian
[Mar 4, 2018 12:58:34 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Trippleos



Joined: Mar 24, 2007
Posts: 59
Status: Offline

Re: Ryuken's Illustrated Distilling Guide Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

There's a super secret cheat code though. I'm not sure if it's the right place to post this

xxxxxxxxxxxxx


You have to press it in that order for it to work, incred every session if you do it right
[Mar 4, 2018 3:59:10 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kyura94

Member's Avatar


Joined: Oct 31, 2010
Posts: 228
Status: Offline
Re: Ryuken's Illustrated Distilling Guide Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
After recording my sessions a few times, I managed to catch one of this premature CC11 finishes. As I had originally assumed, it was me not paying close attention and sending a full brown column up. Because I got no sound indication for it (as opposed to a blecch!), I didn't notice when it went up.

No bug here on my end then, is it possible the same is happening to you @hidemyhoney?

Ouch :(

If it makes you feel better, that's one of the only mistakes that top distillers make. This usually happens in the very beginning when you're focused on the left half of the board. Two helpful ideas to protect against purebrowns:
1) Black Tips. Make it a habit.
2) When you start a board, the rightmost column is always full Black. Take advantage of that, retrieve those Blacks instead of burning them. The chances of purebrowns occurring are lowered significantly.
----------------------------------------
Ryuken on Obsidian (active) and Emerald (not really)
I made an in-depth Distilling guide here, and a guns one somewhere.
I gave Obsidian their Owls c:
[Mar 4, 2018 5:48:31 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Posts: 36   Pages: 2   [ First Page | 1 2 | Next Page | Last Page]
[Show Printable Version of Thread] [Post new Thread]

Puzzle Pirates™ © 2001-2016 Grey Havens, LLC All Rights Reserved.   Terms · Privacy · Affiliates