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Aristarchus



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YARRG - Yet Another Revenue Research Gatherer Reply to this Post
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I'm pleased to announce the first public release of YARRG. YARRG is a system for helping find and plan profitable trade runs. YARRG was inspired by PCTB and in fact started out as a Linux PCTB upload client, but now it has its own website too.

Good features:

  • The website http://yarrg.chiark.net offers access to the data. It has most of the features of PCTB but also has an advanced trade voyage optimiser and searcher.
  • The website works in a text-only non-JavaScript browser and you can bookmark particular searches or queries.
  • There is a data upload client, sadly for Linux systems only, but which can upload to YARRG, to PCTB, or to both (this is the default). So YARRG is also the previously-missing PCTB upload client for Linux.
  • It's all Free Software / Open Source both for client and website. The upload protocol is fully documented.
  • We can offer data feeds to other websites who want to display interesting information (or just want to run an improved version of the website).
  • So YARRG makes it easy to share data with other pirates on your ocean, hopefully saving you data collection effort, but will still make it possible for people to invent exciting new stuff to do with the data.

Bad features:

  • No upload client for Windows or Mac. I'm keen that there should be one. I think it should be very easy to modify the existing PCTB upload client to support YARRG too, but I don't have Windows so I can't do this myself.
  • The upload client is a screenscraper just like th e PCTB v5 Windows uploader.
  • Non-English oceans are not currently supported because there are still some character set bugs.

Thanks are due to the PCTB team, who have been very helpful with hints and tips and also with getting the YARRG upload client to work with the PCTB server, and to those of my crew (Special Circumstances) who've helped out with code and with testing.

So, go and take a look at the YARRG website http://yarrg.chiark.net . If you are running Linux, see http://yarrg.chiark.net/intro for download instructions.

If you're a programmer and use Windows please consider helping out with making the PCTB Windows client work with YARRG.

As this is the first public release there will be bugs. Please email ijackson at chiark.greenend.org.uk, or talk to Aristarchus on Midnight (or any Fleet Officer of Special Circumstances), or leave me a PM in the forums, or post here.
[Oct 25, 2009 6:03:12 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
randy_chimp

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With regards to the website I think you need to reconsider your design in alot of ways, I've just happened to put down a book on designing user interfaces then saw this website and there are quite a few problems with it.

The first thing my eye was drawn upon by your webpage was specifying the route because it was in big letters, so i look down and it asks me for the route. So I try typing in aimuari, pukru. It tells me the islands don't exist and I have no feedback to tell me why I've gone wrong.

There is absolutely nothing that draws your attention to the fact that before you start entering in things you have to choose your ocean --> User frustration++.

I'm not entirely sure but how many people even know where the | key is? I'm willing to bet that the majority don't and putting in that option is just going to lead to more confusion.

The advanced options part was quite good, since I wasn't interested it clearly prompted me that I didn't have to bother.

With regards to specifying the route I think the average person would prefer to be using the drop-down boxes its far simpler and nicer to look at than trying to type the name and follow your convention even as simple as it is. So why is the more complicated version the default? That just makes absolutely no sense to me.

You are using too many technical terms - one of the things the book i just read stresses very highly is to use terms that the user understands! Net cash flow is just going to make anyone other than very intelligent traders scratch their heads take one look and close your website down because they can't be bothered to work out what it means in my opinion.

A good user interface is simple, yours is just too complicated and it takes too long to try and figure out what it all means. You are trying to be helpful and thankyou but I don't think things like data age are going to mean all that much, you had the advanced information on the main page why not continue that trend?

I think a nice summary could also be helpful --> If i want to know about the prices on island A and what they would go for on island B what information do I need?

#The highest buy price on both islands
#The lowest sell price on both islands
#Be able to enter how much I want to buy or sell --> I don't need a list of every stall and what they are doing. I just want to be able to see a list of how many are available at xxx price, how many are available at the next price, or even price range.

Why are you telling me what archipelago an island is in when I've just entered it? It is of no relevance to me at this stage.

Why are there options available for me to sort both ways on buy price for example but I can't view the names in reverse order?

I love the listing for the more advanced user but for the average one you are cluttering it with way too much information that I don't think people need to know.

Archipelago ? Island ? Stall or Shoppe ? Price ?? Quantity ?? Data age ??

To the average user: Archipelago is useless, Data age is just going to be ignored. Island needs to be mentioned ONCE in a batch of data not as a column heading.



Aimuari

Overview:
Highest Buy Price: 100 PoE for 6 units
100-105 PoE includes 50,000 units

Advanced:
Stall/Shop Price Quantity
xx's Stall 100 1
xx's Stall 100 5
xx's Stall 101 94
xx's Stall 102 1,000
xx Shop 103 40,000
xx's Stall 105 5,000

Instantly tells the user at a quick glance that the highest buy price is only a small fraction of the available commodities and the true highest buy price for any resonable amount would be in the 100-105 range.

Whats wrong with that? It presents all of the information that you need and perhaps have a check box to the side that allows you to view data age with an obvious notification at the top that these may not always be up to date.

What do people want from your application? Well there are three things that pop into my head.

#1 This person has a ship, they want to know what is the most profitable voyage that they can undertake to buy commodities on one island and sail them to another to be sold. Does your current design allow this? From what I have seen it doesn't.

I would create a page that asks them: How much they have to invest, what sort of hold size they have to hold items in, where their ship is. They should then recieve the answer that they should pick up xx commodity at this island, sail it to this other place for a profit of xxx PoE per league and xx total. Nice simple to the point.

Right now you have to go through every commodity, every route and try to identify whats good and whats not --> The whole point is that its meant to be automated yet you are asking people to find the information out for themselves. All you seem to be doing right now is offering what is already on puzzle pirates but having all the data in one place.

Just noticed you actually do have this but its very confusing for me to try and find the information -- Just found the problem which is a bug --> When you click to ask for the plan it defaults back to the midnight ocean which is why it was confusing me. Column headings might also be nice.

#2 This person has a stall and wishes to stock it, ask them where thier stall is and present them with a list of islands with the relevant prices and how much is available in a simple way so they can choose where they want to go to get their supplies.

#3 A person is trying to sell their finished products, ask them the island they are at and present them with a list of islands that will buy that commodity for how much, the profit per league of going that extra distance and so forth.

Overall I think you have everything a trader needs you just need to put a bit more thought into how to guide people to how they want, it took me a little while to figure out.

------------------------
Trying to find a list of prices at Aim

I enter:
krakens blood
Aimuari Island

Get told it doesn't exit.

I tried kb again with no luck

On the third try I put in Kraken's Blood and it works.

As soon as i start typing Kr or kb there is only one commodity that I am interested in so perhaps a method to be able to pick this up.
--------------------------
Looking for a profitable route

I entered Sloop, Aimuari and 20000.

It didn't understand sloop because I had used a capital letter which feels very nit-picky.

I get my list and I get told to click on orion to see my full route, it tells me Aimuari doesn't exist and I am sitting here wondering what the hell is going on - I then realise it has defaulted back to midnight upon redirecting me.

I hit enter and the screen is the same as it was before - you have to scroll down to realise it has done something.

I get my list without too much explanation - one sentence or two would be a nice thing. And I get a 9k profit trip for 19 lp's of work. Doesn't sound too bad for the average pirate. I then find out I have to perform between ten to twenty actions at 5 different islands - this seems a bit much to me, a nice option could be to try and limit the amount of commodities you are using but on examining the list I can't see any useless trades that are a waste of my time so perhaps I'm just being to critical on that part.

I think the columns need re-arranging a little - I want to look at what I need to buy and how many. Then check the price. The persons stall again is just something that you need to check so to me it would be nice to be able to see the type and the amounts together.

The overview at the bottom is very nice but it looks like theres a few things again that can be removed to make it read a little nicer. Once again perhaps the advanced view you have now and a simpler one that strips away some of the information.

Aimuari Island Chachapoya Island Yellow enamel 92 3 97 20 5.4% 5 3 276 15 7 0.0 0.0 3 276 15
Aimuari Island Chachapoya Island Yellow enamel 92 3 96 5 4.3% 4 3 276 12 7 0.0 0.0
Aimuari Island Chachapoya Island Yellow enamel 93 11 97 20 4.3% 4 11 1023 44 7 0.1 0.0 11 1023 44
Aimuari Island Chachapoya Island Yellow enamel 92 3 95 11 3.3% 3 3 276 9 7 0.0 0.0
Aimuari Island Chachapoya Island Yellow enamel 93 11 96 5 3.2% 3 5 465 15 7 0.0 0.0
Aimuari Island Chachapoya Island Yellow enamel 94 7 97 20 3.2% 3 7 658 21 7 0.0 0.0 6 564 18
Aimuari Island Chachapoya Island Yellow enamel 92 3 94 19 2.2% 2 3 276 6 7 0.0 0.0
Aimuari Island Chachapoya Island Yellow enamel 93 11 95 11 2.2% 2 11 1023 22 7 0.1 0.0
Aimuari Island Chachapoya Island Yellow enamel 94 7 96 5 2.1% 2 5 470 10 7 0.0 0.0 1 94 2
Aimuari Island Chachapoya Island Yellow enamel 95 10 97 20 2.1% 2 10 950 20 7 0.0 0.0
Aimuari Island Chachapoya Island Yellow enamel 92 3 93 8 1.1% 1 3 276 3 7 0.0 0.0
Aimuari Island Chachapoya Island Yellow enamel 93 11 94 19 1.1% 1 11 1023 11 7 0.1 0.0
Aimuari Island Chachapoya Island Yellow enamel 94 7 95 11 1.1% 1 7 658 7 7 0.0 0.0
Aimuari Island Chachapoya Island Yellow enamel 95 10 96 5 1.1% 1 5 475 5 7 0.0 0.0 4 380 4
Aimuari Island Chachapoya Island Yellow enamel 96 10 97 20 1.0% 1 10 960 10 7 0.0 0.0

I don't want this long list! It's all the same commod going from the same starter island to the same finishing island, give me a condensed overview PLEASE!

Edit: Thanks are due to the PCTB team, who have been very helpful with hints and tips and also with getting the YARRG upload client to work with the PCTB server, and to those of my crew (Special Circumstances) who've helped out with code and with testing.

--> So who are they? Just think it would be nice to actually put the names in the thanks because all that tells me is that people have helped you and I'm not going to bother looking up who it was.
----------------------------------------
Dachimpy.com (video tutorials website)
Blockade Simulator
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by randy_chimp at Oct 26, 2009 3:20:35 AM]
[Oct 26, 2009 3:19:14 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
randy_chimp

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Re: YARRG - Yet Another Revenue Research Gatherer Reply to this Post
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Prices for commodity
Big long lists AGAIN!! I don't like big long lists give me sub categories! If i'm looking for a commodity I know by now what sub-category it is in as defined by puzzle pirates I don't want to scroll through your huge list.

Edit: If you can show me how to obtain the data I'll try and throw something together on my website.
----------------------------------------
Dachimpy.com (video tutorials website)
Blockade Simulator
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by randy_chimp at Oct 26, 2009 4:10:06 AM]
[Oct 26, 2009 4:06:19 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Aristarchus



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Re: YARRG - Yet Another Revenue Research Gatherer Reply to this Post
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Thanks for the comments, randy_chimp.

It's nice to see someone having different ideas for how to analyse and present this information. You'll want to read the information for developers, at http://yarrg.chiark.net/devel.

Personally I wanted to make a site which is as useful as possible to someone who's going to be doing a fair amount of trading and so I favoured power and convenience for the experienced user over making it easy to learn (and I also favoured keyboard entry to mousing as you see). I'd be keen to see you make a competing website :-). You're welcome to use my code as a starting point as you'll see from the AGPLv3 copyright licence and the "download source" link on the devel page, provided you honour the requirement to make the source code (including your changes) available to users.

As for getting the data: the devel page has links to the starting points for playing about with: daily database snapshots for each ocean in SQLite3 format.

When you've got somewhat further, you'll want a full real-time feed, and you'll have to tell me the email address you want the data emailed to: the real-time data feeds are done by machine-readable emails. But I think you'll probably want to start out by downloading a snapshot of the Midnight data and seeing how you'd like your site to look, before you arrange for me to start bombarding you with database update emails.

At the moment there's mostly only data for Midnight as that's the ocean the crew and I mainly play on, but Fred of PCTB client fame is working on getting the PCTB uploader to talk to YARRG so we should have better data for other oceans soon hopefully.

I've fixed the silly bug where the links from the route search reset back to Midnight. Thanks for that report.

Some of your comments are more or less items already on my wishlist (yarrg/TODO in the source tree): queries like "where can I get 20 tellurium for my stall at Eta" and so forth. I know how to do this but I haven't written the code yet. I don't currently have the info in my db about which commodity is in which of the YPP categories which is one reason why the dropdown is so long - but the real answer is that after having written both the dropdown and text entry versions I found the dropdowns very clumsy to use and I haven't been spending time improving and developing them.
[Oct 26, 2009 7:02:09 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Dylan

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Re: YARRG - Yet Another Revenue Research Gatherer Reply to this Post
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Ahoy, just a single click confirmed that the site as it is ... is unusable (in UI terms) ;)

Every cloud has a silver lining, and it already looks as iff the two of you could collaborate on making a tool which is useful to all (good UI) as well as effective for power users.

My advice: not for new users, but look for developments. And if you "need" it, dear (new power) user, write a tutorial on how you got it to work.

(With no disrespect to the documentation, which is quite impressive, but the old Backus-Naur notation will mean little to most.)
[Oct 26, 2009 7:15:50 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
randy_chimp

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I've honestly not got much of a clue what half of that meant I'm still somewhat starting out in computing terms, still got to re-install linux even but hopefully I can come up with something. Do I need to put this on my server to work or could it just work from yours?
----------------------------------------
Dachimpy.com (video tutorials website)
Blockade Simulator
[Oct 27, 2009 12:49:22 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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Well, hello Ian! I haven't bumped into since ASRGs.

I think this system has a lot of potential, not the least of which, being completely open source, we won't have to worry so much about developers moving on to other projects.

I really like the multi-stop stuff and the support of constraints, PCTB is often useless because of it.

Like you, I find typing in stuff to be fine, compared with GUIs. I really like being able to bookmark stuff, PCTB frustrates me to no end because of that, after a couple of years of using it, I'm *STILL* hitting reload to update the screen, only to see everything reset.

I see you are working on some of the changes suggested by dachimp, I have a few other comments:

First, *the* biggest risk while doing trade runs is not brigands (maybe once or twice per year) or PvP (never), but the destination stalls not having enough in their coffers. What typically happens is that some stall has high buy prices for everything, but only 5k in their coffers. They then get listed buying 10 different commodities each of which total up to 5k worth of that commodity. If you buy all 10 commodities, you have 50k worth of stuff on your ship, of which you will only be able to sell one of them and get stuck with the rest.

So, while it isn't very important to know what the stalls you are buying from, it is important to know which stalls you are selling to. There are some people, I just will not ever sell to because I've been stuck too many times with goods intended for them.

Sometimes, I will estimate how much someone has in their coffers by going through all their buy offers, multiplying the buy price by the quantity and seeing how much they have (minimum). I then may sell them the stuff that makes the most profit.

Second, it would be nice to keep the screen with to a minimum. I keep one YPP window and one (or more) PCTB window on my screen at time.

Last, it would be nice to be able to enter extra stuff you have and the price you are willing to sell it for. This can be used for things like bid tickets, or products you have ordered from stores, or stuff you were stuck with from previous trades.
----------------------------------------
Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Oct 27, 2009 3:06:09 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
randy_chimp

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What is your strategy for uploading the data? I simply can't see it being practical for you to do the work. I think for this to be feisable in any way the people using it need to be the ones uploading the data via a program because without up to date information at the very least within a day or two I just see your site as completely useless for the oceans other than midnight right now.
----------------------------------------
Dachimpy.com (video tutorials website)
Blockade Simulator
[Oct 28, 2009 1:32:47 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Publandlord



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What is your strategy for uploading the data? I simply can't see it being practical for you to do the work. I think for this to be feisable in any way the people using it need to be the ones uploading the data via a program because without up to date information at the very least within a day or two I just see your site as completely useless for the oceans other than midnight right now.

The tool for uploading the data is downloadable from the website - see the intro page. As mentioned at the top of the thread, at the moment there is only an uploader for Linux; adapting the PCTB Windows upload client to upload to YARRG as well should be relatively simple and we believe its author is working on that at the moment.

Can a friendly Mac developer help out? :-)
----------------------------------------
Anaplian, Shadow Riders, Midnight Ocean
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Publandlord at Oct 28, 2009 8:27:01 AM]
[Oct 28, 2009 8:26:26 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Publandlord



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First, *the* biggest risk while doing trade runs is not brigands (maybe once or twice per year) or PvP (never), but the destination stalls not having enough in their coffers. What typically happens is that some stall has high buy prices for everything, but only 5k in their coffers. They then get listed buying 10 different commodities each of which total up to 5k worth of that commodity. If you buy all 10 commodities, you have 50k worth of stuff on your ship, of which you will only be able to sell one of them and get stuck with the rest.

Sometimes, I will estimate how much someone has in their coffers by going through all their buy offers, multiplying the buy price by the quantity and seeing how much they have (minimum). I then may sell them the stuff that makes the most profit.

This sounds like a good feature suggestion to me - a tickbox to add an extra constraint on how much destination stalls are willing to buy, calculated as you suggest. I believe Aristarchus ran into this problem trading with the palace at Delta while Barney was still in occupation :-)
 
Last, it would be nice to be able to enter extra stuff you have and the price you are willing to sell it for. This can be used for things like bid tickets, or products you have ordered from stores, or stuff you were stuck with from previous trades.

Aristarchus already has this in his wish list. It's necessary in order to implement a "recalculate from this point" link at each leg of the voyage plan - click on this link to calculate a new voyage based on the current uploaded data, with the goods on board according to the current trading plan as the starting point. You can then tweak the goods on board, for example if you were unable to sell some of them as the original plan required.
----------------------------------------
Anaplian, Shadow Riders, Midnight Ocean
[Oct 28, 2009 8:36:34 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Gerdundula

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Downloaded and tried out but there is no information for Onyx on Cobalt, nothing for sale or to buy ????

The other Archs are OK

Deleted and then tried downloading again but the same happens, Any ideas?

Thanks
[Oct 28, 2009 2:34:08 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Publandlord



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Downloaded and tried out but there is no information for Onyx on Cobalt, nothing for sale or to buy ????

The other Archs are OK

Deleted and then tried downloading again but the same happens, Any ideas?

The idea is that you use the upload client to upload market data to the website. If you (or anybody else) haven't uploaded any data, it won't be there! I note that the existing data for Cobalt is about 48 days old at the moment - nobody has uploaded anything recently.

If you've got the upload client on your machine - you're using Linux and you followed the instructions to download and compile it - then to get the data for an island onto the website you do the following:
1) In a terminal window, change to the directory with the upload client in it (it'll be .../ypp-sc-tools/yarrg - the place where you typed 'make' to compile it)
2) In the Puzzle Pirates window, go to the island you're interested in and go to the market or fort. Bring up the market information display.
3) In the terminal window, enter the command './yarrg'
4) The uploader should page through all the market data, OCR it, and upload it to YARRG and PCTB.

If these instructions don't make any sense to you then maybe you didn't mean the same thing by 'downloaded and tried out' that I thought you did. The upload client for YARRG isn't point-and-click yet.
----------------------------------------
Anaplian, Shadow Riders, Midnight Ocean
[Oct 28, 2009 6:16:56 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
estonianguy

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ok problems with this:
git is not working properly it just clones an empty repository.

fatal operational error:
unsuccessful execution of: setlocale(LC_CTYPE,"en_GB.UTF-8") || setlocale(LC_CTYPE,"en.UTF-8")
convert.c:236: No such file or directory


en_US.UTF-8 is more used and some ppl (like me) dont even have other locales installed. (i don't see the point of this)

the database-info-... and other scripts need to be chmod +x after compilation

windows raising not working in kde4.3.3

when i start to scan the commods it types "7w" (should be /w i guess)

_master-pixmap.txt _pages.ppm has to be extracted from archive

then i linked _local-pixmap.txt to _master-pixmap.txt
but still something is wrong
guess i'm missing something.

open("_local-pixmap.txt", O_RDONLY)     = 4                                                                                                                        
fstat(4, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=3439046, ...}) = 0
mmap(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x7f56a5748000
read(4, "# ypp-sc-tools pctb pixmaps v1\n\n"..., 4096) = 4096
read(4, " 34 85 204 204 170 119 136 13"..., 4096) = 4096
read(4, "04 204 170 0 34 85 0 34"..., 4096) = 4096
read(4, " 204 204 170 204 204 170 204 "..., 4096) = 4096
---------
read(4, " 204 187 85 204 187 85 204 1"..., 4096) = 4096
read(4, " 170 102 0 153 136 0 153 "..., 4096) = 4096
read(4, "0 153 102 0 153 102 0 153"..., 4096) = 2502
close(4) = 0
munmap(0x7f56a5748000, 4096) = 0
pipe([4, 5]) = 0
pipe([6, 7]) = 0
clone(child_stack=0, flags=CLONE_CHILD_CLEARTID|CLONE_CHILD_SETTID|SIGCHLD, child_tidptr=0x7f56a57169d0) = 7851
close(4) = 0
close(7) = 0
fcntl(5, F_GETFL) = 0x1 (flags O_WRONLY)
fstat(5, {st_mode=S_IFIFO|0600, st_size=0, ...}) = 0
mmap(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x7f56a5748000
lseek(5, 0, SEEK_CUR) = -1 ESPIPE (Illegal seek)
ioctl(2, SNDCTL_TMR_TIMEBASE or TCGETS, {B38400 opost isig icanon echo ...}) = 0
write(5, "pixmap\nisland\nP3\n51 12\n255\n 204"..., 4096) = 4096
write(5, "34 85 204 204 170 0 34 85"..., 3899) = 3899
write(5, "\n", 1) = 1
read(6, fatal: Not a git repository (or any of the parent directories): .git
fatal: Not a git repository (or any of the parent directories): .git
ERROR: {Narya} {Narya} {
{Fort Royal} {Fort Royal}
{Maelstrom Island} {Maelstrom Island}
{Mini Island} {Mini Island}
{Wemadeit Island} {Wemadeit Island}
{Yorrick Island} {Yorrick Island}
}
{Nenya} {Nenya} {
{Eieio Island} {Eieio Island}
{Kings Island} {Kings Island}
{Oubliette Island} {Oubliette Island}
{Shatterstone Island} {Shatterstone Island}
{Wyeth Island} {Wyeth Island}
}
{Vilya} {Vilya} {
{Cold Spring Island} {Cold Spring Island}
{Cringe Island} {Cringe Island}
{Diablo Island} {Diablo Island}
{Escher Island} {Escher Island}
{Winking Wall Island} {Winking Wall Island}
}
fatal: Not a git repository (or any of the parent directories): .git
NONE
{Narya} {Narya} {
{Fort Royal} {Fort Royal}
{Maelstrom Island} {Maelstrom Island}
{Mini Island} {Mini Island}
{Wemadeit Island} {Wemadeit Island}
{Yorrick Island} {Yorrick Island}
}
{Nenya} {Nenya} {
{Eieio Island} {Eieio Island}
{Kings Island} {Kings Island}
{Oubliette Island} {Oubliette Island}
{Shatterstone Island} {Shatterstone Island}
{Wyeth Island} {Wyeth Island}
}
{Vilya} {Vilya} {
{Cold Spring Island} {Cold Spring Island}
{Cringe Island} {Cringe Island}
{Diablo Island} {Diablo Island}
{Escher Island} {Escher Island}
{Winking Wall Island} {Winking Wall Island}
}
fatal: Not a git repository (or any of the parent directories): .git
while executing
"exec ./database-info-fetch $unk_what"
(procedure "required/pixmap" line 13)
invoked from within
"required/$reqkind"
(procedure "required" line 13)
invoked from within
"required"

"", 1) = 0
--- SIGCHLD (Child exited) @ 0 (0) ---
wait4(7851, [{WIFEXITED(s) && WEXITSTATUS(s) == 16}], 0, NULL) = 7851
ioctl(2, SNDCTL_TMR_TIMEBASE or TCGETS, {B38400 opost isig icanon echo ...}) = 0
write(2, "\n\nFatal error: ", 15

Fatal error: ) = 15
write(2, "dictionary-manager failed with n"..., 53dictionary-manager failed with nonzero exit status 16) = 53
write(2, "\n\n", 2

) = 2
exit_group(4) = ?



yea i know programming is hard

E:
also why is there a need for a ocr? couldn't the scanning be done with:

ctrl+c
arrow down
xclip -o >> file.txt
printf "\n" >> file.txt
repeat;
----------------------------------------
Xzomg
----------------------------------------
[Edit 2 times, last edit by estonianguy at Nov 12, 2009 3:23:07 AM]
[Nov 12, 2009 2:43:38 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Aristarchus



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Sometimes, I will estimate how much someone has in their coffers by going through all their buy offers, multiplying the buy price by the quantity and seeing how much they have (minimum). I then may sell them the stuff that makes the most profit.

I now have an implementation of this on the test server, http://yarrg.chiark.net/test/both/lookup . It seemed to work well for me when I tested it in anger, and made me a nice profit on the voyage. If I don't spot any problems with it I'll deploy it (and the other related changes) to the production server soon.
 
Second, it would be nice to keep the screen with to a minimum. I keep one YPP window and one (or more) PCTB window on my screen at time.

Yes. It's a bit tricky. The voyage trading plan really needs all of the fields it has in it. The list of relevant trades is indeed quite expansive but personally I don't find myself using it much.
 
Last, it would be nice to be able to enter extra stuff you have and the price you are willing to sell it for. This can be used for things like bid tickets, or products you have ordered from stores, or stuff you were stuck with from previous trades.

Yes. As Anaplian says this is definitely on my todo list.
[Nov 17, 2009 4:19:28 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Aristarchus



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ok problems with this:
git is not working properly it just clones an empty repository.

Are you sure this is the real problem? Perhaps you want to email me a complete transcript of the output of git-clone? (ijackson at chiark dot greenend.org.uk) There is definitely something wrong with the way you obtained the code, because git-clone should do the chmod +x for you.
 
fatal operational error:
unsuccessful execution of: setlocale(LC_CTYPE,"en_GB.UTF-8") || setlocale(LC_CTYPE,"en.UTF-8")
convert.c:236: No such file or directory

en_US.UTF-8 is more used and some ppl (like me) dont even have other locales installed. (i don't see the point of this)

This is needed to make sure everything uses UTF-8. I'll add en_US.UTF-8 to the list of things it attempts.
 
windows raising not working in kde4.3.3

There is nothing I can do about this. The KDE (and Gnome) developers have decided that programs aren't allowed to just go around raising each others' windows. You'll just have to do it yourself (or complain to KDE folks or switch to a different window manager).
 
when i start to scan the commods it types "7w" (should be /w i guess)

This is quite bizarre. Along with all the other strange things it suggests your computer is very unusual. I think we should try to debug this by email.
 
also why is there a need for a ocr? couldn't the scanning be done with:
ctrl+c
arrow down
xclip -o >> file.txt
printf "\n" >> file.txt
repeat;

If you'd try and see what that does you'll see it's not really the right data. Also, there are problems with down-arrow in the commodity list: if the currently selected offer vanishes, it teleports back to the top of the list. This happens surprisingly often on busy markets.

You'll see that there is a new client for PCTB in the works which is based on the Java accessibility APIs. We have a version of this client which works on Linux, without modifying any of the game files or making any change to the system's JVM installation. It needs a bit of tidying up, and a proper copyright permission from one of the authors, before we can release it. On Windows there is the additional problem of how to invoke the JVM with JPCTB wired into the accessibility system without modifying the system's JVM configuration (which is very undesirable because it affects all programs on the system, and if misconfigured would break them all).
[Nov 17, 2009 4:30:59 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
BehindCurtai

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Bump

Is it possible to sort the commodity list in the same order as the "all" selection on the trade screen? Alphabetical isn't helpful.

Is it possible to say something like "Don't even consider/filter out data sets that meet criteria X", such as data_age>120 (assuming that's in hours) for route planning?

Is it possible to specify multiple sort conditions? As far as I can tell, I can only specify one (when looking at prices for commodities over an area).

For the non-dropdown interface (the enter text interface), can you please put an example or two at each "type text here" so we've got some idea of where to start?

How goes the Mac client? (PPC, can't run the x86 OCR)
----------------------------------------
"We're trying to find the error bars on that number"

Dylan wrote: 
Why buy sham poo when real poo is so readily available

----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by BehindCurtai at Feb 6, 2010 10:55:32 AM]
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Aristarchus



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Sorry about the delay replying. We do still exist ...
 
Is it possible to sort the commodity list in the same order as the "all" selection on the trade screen? Alphabetical isn't helpful.

You mean in the list of relevant trades? I guess that would be possible, although the code doesn't do it at the moment. Perhaps the right thing to do would be just to always sort that column by the in-game commodity list and never alphabetically.
 
Is it possible to say something like "Don't even consider/filter out data sets that meet criteria X", such as data_age>120 (assuming that's in hours) for route planning?

It can't do that right now. It would be possible to add. Is it just "exclude old data" that we want, or something more complicated ? I'd rather not add a free-form expression evaluator.
 
Is it possible to specify multiple sort conditions? As far as I can tell, I can only specify one (when looking at prices for commodities over an area).

If you sort first by one condition and then by a second, the second sort shouldn't unnecessarily disturb the first - ie, the second sort is supposed to be stable. However this depends on your browser and some versions of firefox get this wrong (Mozilla bug #224128). If your browser gets it right, you can get the sort you want by just clicking on the sort arrows in the right order.
 

For the non-dropdown interface (the enter text interface), can you please put an example or two at each "type text here" so we've got some idea of where to start?

There are already some examples on the docs page, linked to from the question marks. TBH I don't want to clutter the main data entry page with unnecessary stuff. But it might be worth adding some examples to the "intro" page which has the new-user instructions. Personally I'm pretty useless at writing user documentation so if someone else wants to git-clone the source and suggest some improvements do go ahead. (You can email any patches - you'll find my email address on the developer info page.)
 

How goes the Mac client? (PPC, can't run the x86 OCR)

The Java accessibility-based client is going reasonably well. We've had some problems getting it to work reliably on some installations of ypp and it's taken a while to reproduce the problems (since it has involved reinstalling the operating system on at least one test computer). Watch this space.
[Aug 22, 2010 4:28:18 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Aristarchus



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I'm pleased to announce the availability of the first public version, 0.9.4, of the new uploader, known as "YARRG JPCTB". Full information including the download links can be found here: http://yarrg.chiark.net/upload

Salient points:
  • It uploads to both YARRG and PCTB.
  • It is much, much faster than the OCR-based uploaders. Almost instantaneous.
  • Currently available for Linux and Windows.
  • Mac support ought to be reasonably easy for a Mac expert.
Please post bug reports and other feedback here, email us, or talk to Aristarchus on Midnight. We'll make a noisier announcement, including in the PCTB thread, after it's had a bit of testing.

Thanks to Burninator for his original code (which we've butchered rather), to Owen Dunn for lots of coding help, and to my crewmates for invaluable testing.
[Aug 26, 2010 1:10:22 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Aristarchus



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We've discovered that there is a problem with the pctb part of the uploader. If you have a version earlier than 0.9.7, please download a new version of the jpctb yarrg client. I have arranged for the yarrg server to reject updates from older clients to make sure everyone upgrades. Sorry.
[Aug 27, 2010 1:07:52 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Aristarchus



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I'm pleased to announce Jarrg, a data uploader for YARRG and PCTB. This is the first non-beta release of the uploader formerly known as yarrg jpctb. You can find full details at: http://yarrg.chiark.net/upload

Jarrg uploads market data to both the YARRG and PCTB servers, when used with the default settings.

Jarrg obsoletes the "yarrg" Linux-only OCR-based uploader. Jarrg is much more reliable, and also much faster - plus you get control of your YPP client back almost immediately (under half a seconds), while the upload work takes place.

As I wrote before, Jarrg supports Linux and Windows; MacOS is probably a relatively straightforward port to do but we don't have any Mac systems for testing ourselves.

Please post bug reports and other feedback here, email us, or talk to a Fleet Officer or above of Special Circumstances on Midnight.
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Aristarchus at Sep 12, 2010 1:35:19 PM]
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LJAmethyst

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What is the status of this tool for approval or needing approval by the developers? How does it interface with the client? Does it modify the installation in any way? Does it have specific JVM version requirements? Has it been tested with IcedTea, OpenJDK, any of the alternate JVMs available on Linux?
----------------------------------------
Retired as of August 2015.
2 Timothy 4:7
----------------------------------------
[Edit 2 times, last edit by LJAmethyst at Sep 12, 2010 3:12:42 PM]
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Aristarchus



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What is the status of this tool for approval or needing approval by the developers? How does it interface with the client? Does it modify the installation in any way?

I think these questions are answered on the web page I linked to in the section titled "How does it work? Is it a violation of the Terms of Service?". If you have more questions after reading that, I'd be happy to answer them. No, it doesn't modify the game installation in any way.
 
Does it have specific JVM version requirements? Has it been tested with IcedTea, OpenJDK, any of the alternate JVMs available on Linux?

It has no special requirements, other than proper support for the Java accessibility system. I haven't tested it with different JVMs but I know of no reason why it shouldn't work on any JVM suitable for Puzzle Pirates itself.
[Sep 12, 2010 5:12:15 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Aristarchus



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I'm pleased to announce Jarrg 1.0.4. Jarrg is a data uploader for YARRG and PCTB.
This is a bugfix release, for the following problems:

  • On Windows, if you never used the Jarrg Control Panel, it would default to uploading to the testing servers rather than the live servers.
  • If you sailed a ship from one island to another, and then tried to do an upload from the ship's hold (without disembarking and reembarking) Jarrg would mistake the vessel name for the island name, and fail.
Full details, including the download links, can be found at http://yarrg.chiark.net/upload. Please post bug reports and other feedback here, email us, or talk to a Fleet Officer or above of Special Circumstances on Midnight.
[Jan 3, 2011 7:50:49 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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On Cobalt's Tigerleaf Mountain, there is a relatively new shop named exactly "beer goggles rawk", with no capitalization. This appears to trigger an error when uploading to the server with the error:
processing results (--upload-yarrg)...
400 Bad commodity update

Error: bad data: line 297: stall not capitalised "beer goggles rawk"

at Commods.pm line 405.


Fatal error: output processor/uploader failed with nonzero exit status 255


Yes, I'm still using the old C OCR program rather than the newer Java one, but this error appears to come from the server, not the client, so I suspect that doesn't make any difference.

I double checked the official Building Naming Policy, and no where does it say that building names have to be properly capitalized. (This building doesn't fit in with the naming scheme for the island either, but there isn't a rule against that either.)
----------------------------------------
Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
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Publandlord



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I just checked: the same problem is reported when using the Jarrg uploader.
----------------------------------------
Anaplian, Shadow Riders, Midnight Ocean
[Jan 7, 2011 11:38:10 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Aristarchus



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Error: bad data: line 297: stall not capitalised "beer goggles rawk" at Commods.pm line 405.

Thanks for the report. I've fixed this problem now I think. There are no changes to the clients, just at the server end.
[Jan 8, 2011 8:22:54 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Aristarchus



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I'm pleased to announce Jarrg 1.0.5. Jarrg is a data uploader for YARRG and PCTB.

This is a bugfix release: it fixes a number of thread-safety problems.

As far as I'm aware none of these problems have ever caused anything to go wrong for anyone, but the code was not correct and could in theory have caused unpredictable malfunctions including even JVM crashes.

Full details about Jarrg and YARRG, including the download links, can be found at http://yarrg.chiark.net/upload. Please post bug reports and other feedback here, email us, or talk to a Fleet Officer or above of Special Circumstances on Midnight.

(This message posted to both the JARRG and PCTB threads.)
[Apr 2, 2011 1:07:58 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
shawn007

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Bug report:
Admiral is currently messed up on the Sage ocean the server is saying bad data.
----------------------------------------
Shawnthgreta of Sage
Former Prince of HE
Forme SO of YWN
FO of JFF
[Dec 5, 2011 12:36:59 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Aristarchus



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Admiral is currently messed up on the Sage ocean the server is saying bad data.

I have now fixed this. The bug was caused by someone managing to create a stall whose name started with a space. Astonishingly at no point did the game prevent this or strip the space. So anyway I'm stripping leading and trailing spaces in the yarrg server now.

Also sorry about the very slow response. In general feel free to email me (ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk) as it says on the yarrg pages, or send me forum PMs. For some reason the forum software didn't show this thread as "new" to me.
[Jan 5, 2012 5:13:43 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Aristarchus



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The yarrg testing server instance now supports Cerulean. Thanks to those who put the new ocean map on the wiki!

To make uploads to Cerulean work from jarrg, you will have to use the jarrg options screen to switch uploads to the testing server, and also to disable uploads to PCTB since the PCTB (the testing server, at least) does not know about the Cerulean ocean (and the jarrg client doesn't know how to add it).

You can query the testing yarrg server at http://yarrg.chiark.net/test/both/

The test merged oceans will be supported only in the testing yarrg database; when these oceans are released into production by OOO I will start them with a blank sheet (no data uploaded) on the production yarrg server.
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