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Posted by Lothy at Sep 4, 2003 2:35:16 AM
Shortage of Jobbers? A theory...
((I am starting this discussion up using a tangent we started going off on in another thread. In an attempt to keep THAT thread on topic, here's a new one for this discussion))

I think the shortage of jobbers relates to it really not paying to be a jobber on most ships. A lot of crews offer 5 shares to their Captain, and work their way down so jobbers barely get 2 or even ONE in some cases. A lot of crews have 3 to 2 ratios which isn't too bad. Still, when my crew isn't online, I look at the potential jobs available. It's more profitable to me to hop on a Navy boat and pull Incredibles for a trip and earn 70 PoE than to hop on as a jobber who only gets 1 share to everyone else's 3 or more. Then cruise around with them, only earning half as much for a trip TWICE as long.

On my first crew, jobbing pirates were paid the same as Cabin ones, which is to say not much. For other unrelated reasons I left that crew, and joined up with a few RL friends who had their own crew. THIS crew, every single person in the crew gets One Share, and it's totally fair. It has so far made for a much more enjoyable experience, and we usually don't have a problem getting jobbers when we need em.

Lothy
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Lothy[size=9], Senior Officer of the Free Radicals
Sailing under the Flag Plundered Hearts

Posted by Nothing at Sep 4, 2003 2:45:59 AM
Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory...
Hello.

Posted by Lothy at Sep 4, 2003 2:55:39 AM
Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory...
Yeah, that's one of the ones I was thinking. I dread to think of what you mean by off-the-scale bad. Do jobbers who apply for those ones you mention not even look at the crew info to see what they're applying for? That's the only way I could see them even WANTING to job on a ship like that.

As with all markets, as a jobber I'm going to go where it's most profitable. If that is the Navy, so be it.

Lothy
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Lothy[size=9], Senior Officer of the Free Radicals
Sailing under the Flag Plundered Hearts

Posted by Nothing at Sep 4, 2003 2:58:21 AM
Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory...
Hello.

Posted by raykremer at Sep 4, 2003 3:28:35 AM
Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory...
Aye. When jobbing, about the lowest cut I'll go for is
3/3/4/4/5/5
Though I much prefer the rare ship that offers
1/1/1/1/1

I also look at crew cuts. 30% is pretty common, I prefer lower. Then there's the absolutely absurd ships which have 50% crew cuts and jobbing cuts of half a share working up to five shares for the officers and/or captain.

Posted by triskaideka at Sep 4, 2003 3:44:11 AM
Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory...
I be the captain of a small crew (Lothy's crew, in fact), but I still go out jobbing when me crewmates aren't about. But I sure don't take any jobs where I expect to be making less than I could by taking me small sloop out with three swabbies, or by working for the Navy.

(Whether I actually end up making more money on the jobs I do take be another question. But even then, I'll not complain about a lousy haul when the captain be gettin' the same low wage as I. Sometimes Lady Luck just ain't on yer side.)

These days ye can find a job at the docks at most any hour ye be awake. Whether ye can find a good job be another question. Maybe me crew (1/1/1/1/1/1/25%) should try ta hire more often.

Posted by Hanns at Sep 4, 2003 4:04:13 AM
Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory...
As far as I know, a large majority of people just click all the apply for crew buttons without paying any attention to crew info. *shrug*
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-Spolto, some random guy of millions of people in the Midnight ocean.

-Ayrus, Senior Officer in the La Giustizia Implacabile.

Posted by Nothing at Sep 4, 2003 4:06:58 AM
Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory...
Hello.

Posted by atteSmythe at Sep 4, 2003 4:11:22 AM
Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory...
Our rates are 2/3/3/4/4/4/20%, which I feel are reasonable. Especially since if you work and are fun to be around, we'll likely invite you to join the crew at the end of the trip. We're big on teamwork and loyalty, though, so we're not about to pay jobbers the same as we pay our own crew.
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Attesmythe receives loot: [Gauntlets of Social Responsibility]
Attesmythe receives loot: [Ring of Mandatory Selflessness]


Posted by Hanns at Sep 4, 2003 4:13:12 AM
Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory...
True, dat.

On another note, I've taken a lesson or two from this topic and, well, a lot of the shares are the same now. :P Three for everyone, with 10% crew cut..yay! :p
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-Spolto, some random guy of millions of people in the Midnight ocean.

-Ayrus, Senior Officer in the La Giustizia Implacabile.

Posted by Tedv at Sep 4, 2003 4:35:56 AM
Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory...
I personally offer 4/4/5/5/5/5. I like even payout a lot, but I also want the opportunity to give good crew members a bit of raise. 25% is the lowest raise I can give them though. I wish crew cuts gave me more flexibility in this though.

Incidently, my crew is currently hiring-- give me a /tell if you're interested in jobbing with us. (My online name is also tedv.)

Posted by triskaideka at Sep 4, 2003 5:27:49 AM
Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory...
atteSmythe wrote: 
We're big on teamwork and loyalty, though, so we're not about to pay jobbers the same as we pay our own crew.

Teamwork, aye -- and aren't your jobbers a part of your team too, even if only temporarily?

I've noticed that some crews seem to offer jobbers low pay because they think they're getting a lower quality of work out of them. Surely this is a self-fulfilling prophecy. I've seen a number of highly ranked pirates out jobbing, and I've seen plenty of jobbers earning consistent Excellents or pulling through for their team at the end of a swordfight.

I do settle for smaller shares when jobbing, if I still have a reasonable expectation of decent earnings, or if I already know that I like working with the crew.

Posted by Vexorg at Sep 4, 2003 5:37:03 AM
Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory...
This is, of course, assuming that people want to even bother with jobbers in the first place. I find that the jobbers I get tend to ignore orders, go 6 or 7 on 1 against brigands in sea battles, with the frequent result of particularly hideous defeats, and when not doing so spend most of their time complaining. I've been tempted a time or two to just plank them all, and let Cleaver sort 'em out. Granted, this isn't everyone, but the vast majority of jobbers tend to be just about worthless.
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Vexorg: Apparently still in some crew somewhere, Midnight
(May actually exist)
Yee: No, it's not a breakfast cereal.
AtteSmythe wrote: 
Mmm, community-built hype. Better than the real thing, with less work!


Posted by homullus at Sep 4, 2003 5:45:31 AM
Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory...
 
This is, of course, assuming that people want to even bother with jobbers in the first place. I find that the jobbers I get tend to ignore orders, go 6 or 7 on 1 against brigands in sea battles, with the frequent result of particularly hideous defeats, and when not doing so spend most of their time complaining. I've been tempted a time or two to just plank them all, and let Cleaver sort 'em out. Granted, this isn't everyone, but the vast majority of jobbers tend to be just about worthless.



If you don't plank them, they'll never learn that their behavior is unacceptable. Tell them your expectations before you sail, and tell them you will plank and replace any offenders . . and then do it. If your pay is high, you can have high expectations.

Posted by atteSmythe at Sep 4, 2003 5:56:24 AM
Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory...
Jobbing is a way to get a taste of a crew. Or at least, that's what it is for us. Members of our crew are there for thick and thin. For the long trade runs that don't pan out, for the days that the pillage is low, or the brigands are unbeatable (server resets...grrrr...). I know that our crew isn't going to just ditch when the going gets tough, unlike far too many jobbers I've seen.

We have a relatively low crew cut (works out perfectly, most of the time, so I don't think we'll change it), we put trade profits into the booty box before splitting, and we're pretty good at pillaging. Very rare is the complaint I've gotten from jobbers about pay.

We don't lower the pay because we expect poor performance - although the performance that you get is highly variable. We do it to show our jobbers that we look out for our crew, and to show our crew that we value them as permanent members more than any Joe off the docks.

Also, I don't know about other crews, but I know that our officers put in a lot of work that isn't directly played out in duty puzzles. That added responsibility (eating losses on bad pillaging trips, for only one example) is compensated by a very modest pay increase.

I don't know that any temp worker in any industry expects equal pay and benefits of full-time employment. Treating your crew to a better cut is only one way of showing that you have trust and faith in them.

atteSmythe
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Attesmythe receives loot: [Gauntlets of Social Responsibility]
Attesmythe receives loot: [Ring of Mandatory Selflessness]


Posted by kellychi at Sep 4, 2003 9:19:34 AM
Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory...
The Rudder Duckies offer:

3/3/4/4/5/5 with 0% crew cut

The officers get a higher cut because they are expected to fund the rum and trip costs from their pocket because the crew cut is 0%.

As we are primarily a trading crew, we always throw the profit of a foraging and trading trips into the booty. I'm always amazed when I hear that another crew only splits pillaged booty. If a jobber forages for you, then they've used labor that they would have been paid for at the shop. The jobber should therefore be compensated for the loss of shop earnings. If it was a simple trade run, they've still spent their time manning the ship and deserve compensation.

Posted by burrito at Sep 4, 2003 1:03:11 PM
Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory...
I love finding crews that I can job with that offer me a fair share. I especially like any crew that offers "TWENTY!" to everyone. ;D
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-Peppy, Senior Officer of the Salty Mouthfuls
"Yarr, thar be stairs here."

1st Place, First Drinking Contest, Gaea 24 Hour Bash
2nd Place, Cayte's Sword Tournament, 9/29

Posted by gahris at Sep 5, 2003 6:27:49 AM
Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory...
Well, the Red Russian's offer 20 shares the whole way through, and Ive never had a problem getting 8 jobbers in 5 mins, and I get decent jobbers for my pillage runs :)


only quirk i have: Jobbers comes on ship, jumps to guns with out saying ahoy


If your ever intrested ina good crew to job with, /tell gahris
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Worship your evil moogle master you insolent fools! ¬_¬

Posted by Lallaria at Sep 5, 2003 8:40:44 AM
Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory...
Just found the best one while looking at jobbing notices. This one really made me laugh.
2/2/4/5/10/10 40%

I'm surprised anyone would work for them.
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Lallaria
[size=10]Retired

Posted by Lizzie at Sep 5, 2003 11:02:51 AM
Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory...
Lallaria wrote: 
Just found the best one while looking at jobbing notices. This one really made me laugh.
2/2/4/5/10/10 40%

I'm surprised anyone would work for them.


Who were THEY? lol!
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Ravine
Black Death, Midnight


Posted by joedigriz at Sep 5, 2003 12:34:04 PM
Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory...
My two favorites I saw went something like this (not exact except for first few numbers):

.5/.5/1/3/4/5 35%

1/.5/1/3/3/4 30%

Yes, the first one has a *half share* for both jobbers and cabin folk. And yes, the second one pays jobbers better than new members.
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Garbuck - Red Mantis Scapegoat and Pretty Pretty Princess

Posted by spinn at Sep 5, 2003 12:53:57 PM
Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory...
I see some confusion with the term "crew cut". I actually saw a crew with a 60% crew cut that thought they were the best deal anywhere.
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And thus, the message is concluded.

Posted by Hanns at Sep 5, 2003 3:03:19 PM
Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory...
Hehe, yeah. I'm nice enough to put a quick clarification of crew cut on my crew's info page, though, whee. :p
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-Spolto, some random guy of millions of people in the Midnight ocean.

-Ayrus, Senior Officer in the La Giustizia Implacabile.

Posted by Arishia at Sep 5, 2003 3:34:34 PM
Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory...
I found this one interesting:

Jobbing Pirate: Half a share
Cabin Person: One share
Pirate: Two shares
Officer: Three shares
Senior Officer: Twenty!
Captain: Twenty!
Crew cut: 15 %
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o/~ I'm not lost, but I don't know where I am o/~

Posted by Lizzie at Sep 5, 2003 3:50:07 PM
Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory...
Arishia wrote: 
I found this one interesting:

Jobbing Pirate: Half a share
Cabin Person: One share
Pirate: Two shares
Officer: Three shares
Senior Officer: Twenty!
Captain: Twenty!
Crew cut: 15 %


Come on.. tell us who!
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Ravine
Black Death, Midnight


Posted by Jota at Aug 9, 2005 4:00:00 PM
Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory...
burrito wrote: 
I love finding crews that I can job with that offer me a fair share. I especially like any crew that offers "TWENTY!" to everyone. ;D


So I've got to ask... why do you especially prefer "TWENTY!" for everyone over, say, "one" for everyone?

Posted by Arishia at Aug 9, 2005 4:00:00 PM
Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory...
Don't really remember, but I saw them up on the board tonight looking for jobbers. Would you believe they were the only people hiring? I can't imagine why. =)
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o/~ I'm not lost, but I don't know where I am o/~

Posted by Hanns at Sep 5, 2003 8:37:23 PM
Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory...
It could be worse. Crew cut could be 100%. =P
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-Spolto, some random guy of millions of people in the Midnight ocean.

-Ayrus, Senior Officer in the La Giustizia Implacabile.

Posted by Lizzie at Sep 5, 2003 8:43:19 PM
Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory...
Jota wrote: 
burrito wrote: 
I love finding crews that I can job with that offer me a fair share. I especially like any crew that offers "TWENTY!" to everyone. ;D


So I've got to ask... why do you especially prefer "TWENTY!" for everyone over, say, "one" for everyone?


Obviously because it sounds like so much more. :)
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Ravine
Black Death, Midnight


Posted by meiadm at Sep 5, 2003 8:54:18 PM
Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory...
I think Mutineers be usin' Twenty! fer all crew

and then a 15% crew cut... very fair - I do prefer jobbin' with them ;)
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Frizzan - Gone for good

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