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Posted by altheacat at Mar 21, 2012 1:44:52 AM
What's with the OMs/ Devs loving that DNav puzzle?
OK so I hate it, does my head in, can't cope with Dnav, so now, to "make the gaming experience more satisfying" they are removing the reboot window, yadda, yadda, yadda?

This is the only puzzle that seems to be compulsory now in the game. You can go out to sea and choose between sails, carp, rigs ( eww), bilge, guns and you can still have fun according to your preferences, or even Bnav ( ewww ). So no, my game experience won't be more satisfying, in fact the opposite applies.

Why make one crappy (imho) puzzle essential to playing PP?

I am well aware that you don't HAVE to move commods, or can pay people to help, but that still means sailing your own ship which I hate doing and if you look around at stats, a lot of people just enjoy jobbing and even more people don't Dnav.

Can an OM/Dev explain why they want to impose one puzzle on us? Have they even thought of consulting us, the paying customers?
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Noushka still of Sage

SO of Privateers
Lady of the Black Flag

Posted by Belthazar451 at Mar 21, 2012 3:12:28 AM
Re: What's with the OMs/ Devs loving that DNav puzzle?
Aha, there's the HWFO. Was wondering where it had gotten to.

So, you're being deprived of a single half-hour window which was only used to exploit the game to death. Crisis. Pitchforks and torches time.

Posted by ikketje at Mar 21, 2012 3:36:27 AM
Re: What's with the OMs/ Devs loving that DNav puzzle?
 
Have they even thought of consulting us, the paying customers?

I actually believe that a lot of people have requested a higher impact for the D-nav puzzle in the past and many will be happy with this release.
If you don't like the puzzle, then don't do it: you're lucky that it only takes 1 person to give a whole ship the benefits from it.
And you say not many people play the puzzle, but maybe that's because there's only 1 station? I sure see people ask/volunteer to D-nav on every ship I board, be it small or big.
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Ikke on Meridian and Emerald
Veerle on Cerulean

~Avatar by Velternal

Posted by Abandonment at Mar 21, 2012 3:56:39 AM
Re: What's with the OMs/ Devs loving that DNav puzzle?
Bring on the PvP!
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Priapus/Guantanamo

Posted by Yngve6 at Mar 21, 2012 4:21:12 AM
Re: What's with the OMs/ Devs loving that DNav puzzle?
Personally I love to Dnav. However Dnavving during a pilly seems to ruin my stats. Somehow you need long undisturbed routes to get excels or increds on dnav (at least I do). And what did I miss anyway? Is dnav now compulsory to sail a ship?
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Inghild on Meridian
Yngve on Emerald
Avatar by me

Posted by Snowpixie at Mar 21, 2012 5:47:45 AM
Re: What's with the OMs/ Devs loving that DNav puzzle?
 
Personally I love to Dnav. However Dnavving during a pilly seems to ruin my stats. Somehow you need long undisturbed routes to get excels or increds on dnav (at least I do). And what did I miss anyway? Is dnav now compulsory to sail a ship?

No, there's just going to be a new update where dnav is adjusted to have a stronger impact. It won't make any difference to drivers that didn't dnav before - not dnavving won't change. The freaking out is because we're losing our no-brigand exploit so we can no longer solo a ship that's too big to solo.

Announcement here.

Plus ones from me all round. I'm happy with this update on all counts.
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Imp, totally sane mermaid-siren of Meridian.
Superdoodle avatar by Budclare =D

Posted by Trogo1 at Mar 21, 2012 8:19:23 AM
Re: What's with the OMs/ Devs loving that DNav puzzle?
 
So, you're being deprived of a single half-hour window which was only used to exploit the game to death.


As a person who regularly floats, I don't see floating during the reboot window as an exploit. It's as much as much as an exploit as back-walling a Haunted Seas or Atlantis board, which limits the number of moves that the AI can make. Similarly, floating during reboot limits the number of engagements that you have at sea, as you are still prone to PvP.
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Trogo on Viridian.

Posted by altheacat at Mar 21, 2012 8:40:29 AM
Re: What's with the OMs/ Devs loving that DNav puzzle?
Thread is now in game design, my bad for posting here in the first place.

Am complaining because it is only Dnav that can help, and I would like to see at least one other puzzle help evade.
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Noushka still of Sage

SO of Privateers
Lady of the Black Flag

Posted by bronzebeard at Mar 21, 2012 9:24:02 AM
Re: What's with the OMs/ Devs loving that DNav puzzle?
The only people that really have to duty nav ever are PvPers when the other boat has a duty navver. At least merchants and pillagers get some sort of benefit to their duty navving, whereas PvPers have to do it just for the privelege of being able to engage a boat.
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Peglegpaul
Now on Obsidian!

Posted by elfeesh at Mar 21, 2012 9:37:14 AM
Re: What's with the OMs/ Devs loving that DNav puzzle?
I like the update. It means that merchants don't get an advantage just by being online at the right time, but means they have to use their skill at a puzzle (this being a puzzle game) to gain any sort of advantage in moving their stock.

It gets rid of the timing exploit and replaces it with a level footing where skill matters, and this is coming from someone who both does stock runs and only has Distinguished Duty nav.

It's a good update, in my eyes. But then again, you can't please anyone, and such is the state of the game at the moment than anything will be greeted with "OMFGZ THIS WILL KILL THE GAME AAAHHHMMFFGGGGG", or words to that effect.
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Elfeesh

"We are all worms. But I do believe I am a glow-worm."

Posted by Belthazar451 at Mar 21, 2012 1:12:48 PM
Re: What's with the OMs/ Devs loving that DNav puzzle?
Trogo1 wrote: 
As a person who regularly floats, I don't see floating during the reboot window as an exploit.

I know. If you saw it as an exploit, you wouldn't do it. =P

The point of the reboot window was to give pillages in progress a chance to get to port before the reboot hit and ate all their booty. It was never meant to give people a free shot at floating or memming or whatever. When you're structuring your business model around an unintended use of a game function, that's an exploit.

elfeesh wrote: 
It's a good update, in my eyes. But then again, you can't please anyone, and such is the state of the game at the moment than anything will be greeted with "OMFGZ THIS WILL KILL THE GAME AAAHHHMMFFGGGGG", or words to that effect.

There's nothing special about now - people will always say that, regardless of how the game is actually going. =)

Posted by Trogo1 at Mar 21, 2012 1:28:11 PM
Re: What's with the OMs/ Devs loving that DNav puzzle?
Belthazar451 wrote: 
When you're structuring your business model around an unintended use of a game function, that's an exploit.

Okay. So, what we as pirates must do is to follow exactly what the Developers have paved for us.

<Scenario>

- Developer driving a steamroller to pave the road ahead.
- Group of pirates walking behind the steamroller.
- One pirate says, "Hey look! There's a short cut!" and takes it.
- Developer sees, angered, shoots that pirate and restricts access to that shortcut.
- Developer find a better way to control it's player base, and chains each and every one pirate onto the Steamroller, so they'd follow the intended use of the "Game Function".

</Scenario>

The amount of creativity that the developers want us pirates to develop is utterly overwhelming. Every time an exploit* comes up, it must be quashed with immediate effect.

* = includes 'unintended' use of a game-function.
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Trogo on Viridian.

Posted by Pianoman1125 at Mar 21, 2012 1:37:05 PM
Re: What's with the OMs/ Devs loving that DNav puzzle?
I also liked this update. As a person who has been regularly the #1 duty navver on Midnight and now Cerulean, I noticed that even when pulling amazing incred after incred when I'm dnavving in evade mode, I still get hit with as many brigand spawns as if I wasn't dnavving. That to me seemed odd since, if so, what was the point of evade/trade as options? If this truly cuts down on the brigand spawns for good dnav performance, I will be thrilled.

~The Maestro
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Muffynz
A Cartographer

Member of Crimson Tide
YPPedia Admin
Not-so-secretly conducting the oceans since 2003.

Posted by Aeternis at Mar 21, 2012 2:10:38 PM
Re: What's with the OMs/ Devs loving that DNav puzzle?
If you play Monopoly and find the shortcut that you win if you just take money out of the bank then your friends will say: that's not intended and take the bank out of your range to play the game as intended. The only thing with that reboot exploit is, that the reaction is too late, else it's perfectly fine.
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Locu on Cerulean and Opal (and some other Oceans)

Check the Rack at Phakey's Tailor Stall on Tinga for nice clothes!
Locu's Weaving Stall on Tinga and Cranberry

Avatar by Cattrin

Posted by Trogo1 at Mar 21, 2012 2:24:08 PM
Re: What's with the OMs/ Devs loving that DNav puzzle?
Aeternis wrote: 
If you play Monopoly and find the shortcut that you win if you just take money out of the bank then your friends will say: that's not intended and take the bank out of your range to play the game as intended. The only thing with that reboot exploit is, that the reaction is too late, else it's perfectly fine.

Actually, your analogy is invalid as there is a short cut in Monopoly, and it is legit:
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Trogo on Viridian.

Posted by Quitex at Mar 21, 2012 2:47:00 PM
Re: What's with the OMs/ Devs loving that DNav puzzle?
The only reason you hate it is because you are not good at it.

I am sorry, but when I started my YPP career, I couldn't gun, dnav or carp for barnacle. I hated those puzzles. Then I had to learn those puzzles because I needed them to succeed. I learned those puzzles and I like them now.

I am so sorry that you feel that important, you're not. They did a change, deal with it.
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Quitex, everywhere, mainly Ice.
Monarch of Cows
Joly wrote: 
Someone asked why Quitex would do this as a rogue. All I can say is, well, he's QUITEX! No one knows what he will do next, ESPECIALLY Quitex.


Posted by tanonev at Mar 21, 2012 2:48:58 PM
Re: What's with the OMs/ Devs loving that DNav puzzle?
 
Aeternis wrote: 
If you play Monopoly and find the shortcut that you win if you just take money out of the bank then your friends will say: that's not intended and take the bank out of your range to play the game as intended. The only thing with that reboot exploit is, that the reaction is too late, else it's perfectly fine.

Actually, your analogy is invalid as there is a short cut in Monopoly, and it is legit:


If you think that invalidates the analogy, you should really consider taking Intro to Logic, and soon. "Doing X in A is like doing Y in B." "No it isn't, because you can do Z in B." o_O

What astounds me is that this discussion can still go on after the following quote from OOO:

Demeter wrote: 
It was never our intention for players to wait up all night in order to avoid intercepts while moving goods in the half hour before reboots.

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Tanonev on all oceans; currently exploring Meridian.
Puppetar by Tilinka

Posted by wrs1864b at Mar 21, 2012 3:03:43 PM
Re: What's with the OMs/ Devs loving that DNav puzzle?
 
The only reason you hate it is because you are not good at it.

Uh, no.

I have never liked blacksmithing, but I'm leg in it. I have always found distilling fun, if a little frustrating, but I'm barely distinguished in it. I don't much like weaving, but I've gotten to g-m in it.

I happen to kind of like dnav and am pretty good at it, but I can completely understand people not liking various puzzles.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.

Posted by xelto at Mar 21, 2012 4:25:57 PM
Re: What's with the OMs/ Devs loving that DNav puzzle?
 
Aha, there's the HWFO. Was wondering where it had gotten to.

/e snerks

 
I actually believe that a lot of people have requested a higher impact for the D-nav puzzle in the past and many will be happy with this release.

^^^ Yeah, this part. They've listened to their customer base.

 
As a person who regularly floats, I don't see floating during the reboot window as an exploit. It's as much as much as an exploit as back-walling a Haunted Seas or Atlantis board, which limits the number of moves that the AI can make.

Exactly! Let's do something about that one, too, soon!
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Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"

Posted by Snowpixie at Mar 21, 2012 4:34:48 PM
Re: What's with the OMs/ Devs loving that DNav puzzle?
 
I happen to kind of like dnav and am pretty good at it, but I can completely understand people not liking various puzzles.

Agreed, but you have 3 puzzles to choose from when trading, and I can't understand said people not wanting to recognise that using a game mechanic that is only available for half an hour a few times a week and was created for a different purpose is exploity. They'll adjust, it's not like it costs that much to pay a couple of sailors (and/or a dnavver) if they don't want to dnav themselves, evading is easy when you have enough people on board for the size of the ship. If you were meant to solo MB's up, we'd have the extra/skilled swabbies already, argue for that rather than exploit.

On that note, I'm about to go upset some people in GD.
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Imp, totally sane mermaid-siren of Meridian.
Superdoodle avatar by Budclare =D

Posted by darkseid at Mar 21, 2012 7:23:29 PM
Re: What's with the OMs/ Devs loving that DNav puzzle?
what's this balls of people syaing d-nav seems to be becomign the only compulsory puzzle

there's two flaws min that
1: it's is far from compulsory.
2:SF is probably the 'most compulsory' puzzle, seeing as how it's present on every voyage type and skellies frays aswell.

oh and also, IT'S NOT COMPULSORY YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DO IT.

it's merely helpful, but the noly time I'd even be tempted to do it is if I was shipping commods on a route I don't have memmed. or for memming. or if someone's got trading up on the nb and I'm bored.

so basically all the times I'd d-nav before, completely unchanged.
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Darkseid, Cerulean.
Senior Officer of Under the Black Flag.

Posted by mari_ at Mar 22, 2012 12:27:39 PM
Re: What's with the OMs/ Devs loving that DNav puzzle?
Yawn.

Reboot exploit has been a problem for years, and its about time they addressed the issue. Nicely done OOO.

As for this ruining the game, think you'll find the introduction of poker did that ;)
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Calamarie - now also in Obsidian flavour!
Dignity - Emerald

"Always remember... Rumours are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots."

The Shadow is in my very core ;)

Posted by Aethera21 at Mar 23, 2012 8:14:25 AM
Re: What's with the OMs/ Devs loving that DNav puzzle?
 
I also liked this update. As a person who has been regularly the #1 duty navver on Midnight and now Cerulean, I noticed that even when pulling amazing incred after incred when I'm dnavving in evade mode, I still get hit with as many brigand spawns as if I wasn't dnavving. That to me seemed odd since, if so, what was the point of evade/trade as options? If this truly cuts down on the brigand spawns for good dnav performance, I will be thrilled.

~The Maestro


This. I haven't tried it out yet, but I plan on doing a pile of memming this weekend, and I can't wait for the Evade setting to actually help me Evade. Let's hope it works! Nice work, OOO.
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Aethera of Cobalt Cerulean
Princess of Maniacal Menagerie
Blockade staff on any ocean
Avatar by Bunnylaroo

Posted by Quitex at Mar 23, 2012 3:17:38 PM
Re: What's with the OMs/ Devs loving that DNav puzzle?
 
 
I also liked this update. As a person who has been regularly the #1 duty navver on Midnight and now Cerulean, I noticed that even when pulling amazing incred after incred when I'm dnavving in evade mode, I still get hit with as many brigand spawns as if I wasn't dnavving. That to me seemed odd since, if so, what was the point of evade/trade as options? If this truly cuts down on the brigand spawns for good dnav performance, I will be thrilled.

~The Maestro


This. I haven't tried it out yet, but I plan on doing a pile of memming this weekend, and I can't wait for the Evade setting to actually help me Evade. Let's hope it works! Nice work, OOO.

I will also test this. If this is as advertised, I will be thrilled as well.
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Quitex, everywhere, mainly Ice.
Monarch of Cows
Joly wrote: 
Someone asked why Quitex would do this as a rogue. All I can say is, well, he's QUITEX! No one knows what he will do next, ESPECIALLY Quitex.


Posted by wrs1864b at Mar 23, 2012 3:33:40 PM
Re: What's with the OMs/ Devs loving that DNav puzzle?
 
 
This. I haven't tried it out yet, but I plan on doing a pile of memming this weekend, and I can't wait for the Evade setting to actually help me Evade. Let's hope it works! Nice work, OOO.

I will also test this. If this is as advertised, I will be thrilled as well.

So, almost exactly 5 years ago to the day, OOO first announced that dnav would have an impact on spawns. After almost exactly 2 years of complaining that dnav really doesn't do anything, OOO announced that they have changed dnav to have a larger impact on spawns. Could it be that after another three years, OOO finally got it working?

What scares me is that if dnav actually helps, OOO will nerf it.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.

Posted by NickScorpio at Mar 25, 2012 5:27:27 AM
Re: What's with the OMs/ Devs loving that DNav puzzle?
The impact of dnav is definitely changed. I used to see spawns just about every LP after 4-5 LPs when scoring mostly excellent. I've doubled that so far. I haven't tried any longer.
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Hankscorpio

Posted by Roleni at Mar 25, 2012 8:35:04 PM
Re: What's with the OMs/ Devs loving that DNav puzzle?
I've seen the same kind of impact with excellent duty nav. Unfortunately, the ship wasn't supposed to be on pillaging setting. :P
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Thalatta & others

Hera tells ye, "You got me so flustered by the spanking, I booched my chat response!"
Hera tells ye, "Purple is the most awesome colour ever!"

Posted by BobJanova at Mar 26, 2012 1:30:32 PM
Re: What's with the OMs/ Devs loving that DNav puzzle?
Good thing you can switch to Evading anywhere then ;)
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Bobjanova on Viridian and Malachite
Shops and stalls with fair and profitable wages for all: Jubilee, Napi, Chelydra
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Phantasm/Reign of Chaos (Viridian)


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