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Print at Feb 25, 2020 9:22:44 PM

Posted by Ezder at Oct 2, 2012 12:48:44 AM
Re: Regarding sinking blockades
Ivy wrote: 
There was also once was a time when flag A didn't like flag B, and wanted to deplete flag B's resources - a sinking blockade is a good start at doing that. You don't see that kind of grudge blockade as often these days, but every now and then it pops up.

Of course. That is just another form of material attrition. The main difference is that it can easily be done to flags which play fair, whereas material attrition with jobber pay can only be done to paywarring flags, who enjoy winning by outjobbing. Nonetheless, the later form of attrition is often condemned as immoral by the same people who praise sinking blockades. To me, that logic is flawed.

Sinking is an even field, you sink I sink we all sink.

Outjobbing by paywar is pretty obviously one sided. AND is easily and often done to fair-play flags by not so fair-play flags.

Sinking is not even. Outjob your opponent, and he will sink more, everything else even.

In the second sentence, I think you misunderstood me. I was not talking about the outjobbing/paywaring, but about the countermeasure when you're up against a financially stronger flag, that insists to push you over with pay: Drop repeatedly, and watch them pay maybe 50% more than you do to buy their defense each week. Eventually, they'll start hurting, and hopefully lean towards more reasonable defenses. That is material attrition, and that is what is condemned as immoral, rather than the overjobbing as such. The tactic works in non-sinking, but if the overjobbing defender makes the blockade sinking, they can keep pushing you off the board with pay while sinking your ships, and the equation isn't as nice any more. (This is pretty much just another wording of the second argument in the OP.)

Dahlgren wrote: 
Also, material attrition can always be done, the only requirement is that you have more funds than the opposition.

That may be where our disagreement lies then. Eww, what you're insinuating is not material attrition in my book, it's pushing over with pay. Totally different thing. What I call material attrition falls completely flat against a flag, that allows even jobbing. Just can't be done, and there is no reason to do it either. (Unless you're just after buying the island but as I see material attrition, it's done to punish overjobbing flags and (if they have brain enough to get the math) teach them that their strategy is not a good one, not primarily to gain an island.)

Dahlgren wrote: 
Woohoo I missed my bus so I have time to reply properly.

You're saying that sinking blockades penalize new flags. Though in order to have new flags in the first place, you need to inspire people to get involved in the blockading game (otherwise who would create these new flags?). The hardcore, top tier blockading is what makes people want to get into it. Without that, you'll have a considerably smaller influx of new people in the blockading scene.

Maybe it was just me, but the only reason I put down the kind of time and effort into getting somewhat decent at what we call blockading was to be regarded with the same kind of respect that Daquan, Dalnoth, and all the other top knotch navers I looked up to back when I was making my way upwards.


And, that is your story. Maybe your reason. It's not mine and I think for most people who actually pay for the fun, or consider starting a flag to do so, the big sinking clusterscuppers scare away way more people than they inspire. Most people who consider putting their poe into blockading rather than furniture or familiars want to have fun at a reasonable cost, and still have their fleet afterwards.

Naggy avatar

Qvintvs flag royalty chats, "I won't play for that much longer and when I quit, my pirate's dead body will be sent out at sea on a burning ship and let's face it, you will be on that ship as well.

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